Gay Museum Busts Must Separate

My guide friend in Rome is getting a divorce. It’s uncontested. They just want to be through. A divorce used to take five to ten years in Italy. He said now, it takes only three. “Only” three years? I asked why so long? He said, “You were there this morning.” I understood. It was the Vatican.

While Italians are not particularly churchgoing, the Vatican still has a huge influence on Italian society. According to my local friends, the new pope (Benedict XVI) is particularly activist when it comes to homosexuality. I was told gay couples have no legal rights in Italy.

Benedict won’t even let the portrait busts of gay lovers (who haven’t sinned in 2,000 years) share the same museum shelf. As long as people could remember, Emperor Hadrian’s head was displayed next to his gay boyfriend (the incredibly beautiful — and young — Antinous). Antinous was recently moved out, leaving Hadrian’s bust all alone.

Horrible as it may seem to us in modern times, in ancient times, it was acceptable for a man to keep a boy as a lover — but only until the boy had hair on his chest. In ancient Greek morality, to love a boy was considered pure — no child possible, absolute love for love’s sake. (Please don’t shoot me — I’m just the messenger.) Many Romans I met — while not negative about the teachings of the Church — had a bad attitude about the Vatican’s wealth and bureaucracy. Guides who deal daily with the frustration of Vatican Museum crowds know that 20,000 visitors pack into the Vatican museum each morning. At 13 euros each, that’s about $400,000 revenue each morning simply from the museum.

Like Americans have a box on their tax forms giving them the opportunity to donate to political campaigns, Italians have a voluntary box to donate to the Roman Catholic Church. By all accounts, it’s rarely used.

About the Vatican labor force — when Pope John XXIII was asked how many people work in the Vatican, he answered, “About half.”

Comments

29 Replies to “Gay Museum Busts Must Separate”

  1. I must have missed your reporting on Islam’s universal acceptance of homosexuality while on your Turkey Trot. Also please report on what your Democrat Party is trying to accomplish with condemning Turkey with genocide of almost a century past? Is it possible that you would come down with George W. Bush on this issue? Just trying to keep a liberal honest. Tough work!

  2. I am a huge Rick Steves book fan, but based on this blog, I am no longer a Rick Steves fan. Enough bashing of the catholic church — you are in Rome to film for the Lutheran church — are all their rules consistent?? Every religion has their faults. And, I believe this blog just took the gay debate to an unnecessary place. Sleeping with children — boys or girls is illegal and immoral in most cultures — because it is corrupting, abusive and NONCONSENSUAL. Just because it was “acceptable” in ancient times did not make it NOT RAPE — and you don’t need to make fun of the catholic church or whatever museum authorities might think it appropriate to NOT PORTRAY child rape as a cultural norm. Maybe it’s just me, but I want to take my kids to those museums and I’m not a prude — they can look at nudes, and adult gays, etc., but my vacation does not need to insert notions of child rape into my kids’ minds. Just my two cents. Rick’s in Rome – blog about Rome!

  3. THANK YOU Rick..for writing a truthful take on the vatican…many people bury their heads in the sand over issues of religionn.

    Do people know that the vatican was built via the crusades, let’s not forget one of the ten commandments..

    Thou shall not kill

    How about what they stole art during the crusades and showcase the art all over the vatican museums…let me see, another commandment is Thou shall not steal.

    The vatican has enough Egyptian and Greek antiquites that were taken from these countries, let’s not forget that these countries have asked for their art work back–and have not received an answer.

    And the vatican is worried about Hadrian’s lover?

  4. Christ said; To enter heaven you must enter through the narrow gate. Christ, who established his universal church on the Rock of Peter, never said that it would be easy. So Rick, do not shoot the messenger of Jesus Christ and his bride the Church with your glib words and empty heart. As Christ’s messenger, the Catholic Church is only here to communicate the way to eternal salvation to all – gay and straight alike. God Bless all of us and help love each other more.

  5. Greetings to all, After reading your blog and others blog, we wanted to give our take on the Vatican, so here goes: My husband and I were both art history minors in college. we could not wait to visit the Vatican and see all that artwork.

    Yes, it is impressive, however, then came the reality….how was this place built, where did a large majority of this work come from? Is this not the “home of hypocricy” eg. the recent Monsignor Tommaso Stenico scandal? Do as I say not as I do…

    We both love Rome, the people, the sights, food etc. however, the opulence of the Vatican left us uneasy..

  6. Are people reading the same blog entry as I am???? Some people responding seem to think this post is Anti-Catholic, what I read is just simple reporting of what some Italians think. I think some people need to be less sensitive about religion, I don’t think Rick is attacking your beliefs. Happy Travels!

  7. We visited the Sistine Chapel in The Vatican, when they were experimenting with a method of cleaning the art, in 1980. We visited again in 1985 while ceiling renovation was being carried on, and yet again in 1989 when the artwork was perhaps 80% renewed.

    We knew immediately when we had reached the Sistine Chapel — everyone in the room was standing, with eyes turned toward the ceiling. In 1980 there was scaffolding in one corner of the room, they were experimenting with a new method of cleaning the art on the ceiling and walls.

    A rail was then installed on each side of the Chapel near the ceiling, and a platform was mounted on the rail so it could roll to and fro, sixty feet above the floor. Ceiling renovation was carried on from the platform while tourists continued to gaze and gasp from below.

    Twice we climbed the 305 steps of the endless, interleaved, precarious oneway staircase, to the lantern at the tip of the dome at the Basilica of St. Peter’s, in the Vatican.

  8. Rick, Thanks for forcing us to examine what we take for granted from a different viewpoint. It’s easy to be a tourist who just dumbly enjoys seeing the sights, but it’s really a good thing to take a deeper look at what’s really behind the sights we’re seeing. By the way the discussion about the Vatican made me think about the British Museum – how did they get all of their awesome belongings? I think pretty much the same way. The only difference I see is that they don’t charge admission! Thanks for making us think Rick!

  9. Jill I totally agree with what you wrote about the Vatican and British Museum…but the difference is that the Vatican is supposed to be a religious entity that tells everyone to follow the 10 commandments( really sad isn’t it)–the British took via the British empire–I saw the so called Elgin Marbles and hopefully they take the “red eye” back to the new Acropolis Museum in Athens…

    p.s.-Rick did you see the new museum?

  10. These comments made by Steve are why I now buy Lonely Planet as my travel books. Reading Rick Steves is like watching local news – sensationalism rather than reporting facts.

  11. I find it astounding how Rick has managed to infuse anti-Vatican, and pro-pedophilia(ancient Greek boy love that is)sentiments into a travel blog. Keep on blustering, Rick.

  12. I have worked with and in the Vatican for years, use to be a catholic by default. They are cash hungry, and only take cash. They have removed statues of male lovers, they cut the male penis off and covered nude women with fake marble becuase they are afraid of women. I have a friend who was a priest working for a huge Vatican charity, now he works in a hotel, I got him that job. They Vatican wrecked that guys life just because he tried to be a real christian. The leader of that Vatican chairty is a Scot he is gay, he hates english people and is a very nice guy. He is like the Vatican, messed up. Rick is a great guy, he has the couarge to accept the things he can not change, the strength to change what he can and the wisdom to know the difference. Dont loose sight of this, the Vatican has a strong history of trying to knock down the worlds most important artists, then they turn around and steal that art. Thats why they are in Italy, corruption.

  13. In the last few weeks just about every hot topic has been touched upon. However, this seems to have touched a nerve! For scandalous history of BOTH the Vatican AND Martin Luther read “A World Lit Only by Fire” by William Manchester, a great, easy to read history of Europe as it went from medieval to renaissance. The truth is not only shocking, but entertaining. “Greek as a Treat” by Peter France is recommended as a thin book that covers all aspects of life in classical Greece. It’s published by the BBC and covers the topic with droll humor. Includes 5 pages on homosexuality in ancient Greece. WHATEVER you think, it was not exactly what you think. (By the way, it’s suprising how poorly the ancient Greeks treated women.) History rocks! Happy travels!

  14. After reading & re-reading Rick’s post, I did not see ANYTHING “pro” this or that. He was simply reporting on his conversations with Romans. You people need to actually read the post & not attempt to insert your OWN biases into it. Thanks Rick for your OPEN-minded viewpoints (no matter how controversial they may be!) – keep up the good work! :)

  15. Yikes! OK, so Rick reports that different societies have been hypocritical in the past (and probably continues). So, far, the people who are offended have not disputed the reality, just the reporting of it. Yup, there is no country or organization that doesn’t have something to be ashamed of in their past or present. But if your’re talking about European history, you can’t leave out the Catholic church as they were the only big guys on the block for centuries. If we want to see where we’re at, have to know where we’ve come from. I don’t see this blog as a travel guide but for reflection of a travel writer and his readers. I have only been to Europe 5 times and not as extensively as Rick. I would guess that he has discussed these issues with more Europeans than most of it. So, give it a read, take what you like and leave the rest behind. I guess Rick needs to end each blog entry with : INCOMING!!!!

  16. Just to be clear. Rick said that he was told that ‘gays have no legal rights in Italy’. Obviously this is such a gross overstatement that it makes the statement ridiculous. My beef is that Rick repeated such a statement without explanation on what Italian laws actually are. If Rick didn’t know he should have asked one of his Italian contacts. Writing, even travel blog writing, must be clear and precise. A statement like ‘gays have no legal rights’ is just nonsense. Maybe not nonsense if Rick were talking about Iran, but in Italy it is.

  17. Rick, only the most vicious of gossips precede their venom with the implication that as a messenger, they are somehow innocent: “I just thought you should know….” Look first to your own attitude about the artistic wealth of the Vatican. Like “Mary and Scott” if you are troubled by the business, it is a bit disingenuous to express righteous indignation only AFTER you have profited from the experience, both personally and – in your case – from listing it in your guidebooks, and including it in the itineraries of your tour company.) Boycott the place, if the entrance fees bother you. Of course, if you’re going to start boycotting sites with troublesome associations, you’d best find another job. Few of the most popular tourist sites in Europe were built by nice, democratic agencies (as Orson Welles so famously summed up in the film classic, “The Third Man”).

  18. I get back from church and have to read this? If Rick blogged that the grass is green, sky is blue, and water is wet, some of you would find a way to get insulted. Part of traveling is to broaden your mind, and you can’t broaden your mind if you’re going to take everything as a personal insult. Rick is not out to offend you. He’s looking to tell interesting stories – and some of us LIKE that. If you want to go get offended, go read some political-religious blog and leave Rick alone. [Britney-like sob] LEAVE RICK ALONE! [/Britney-like sob]

  19. Kath, Ironically, in your “Just to be clear” comment, you misquoted Rick. Rick said, “I was told gay couples have no legal rights in Italy.” (emphasis added). Moreover, he’s correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Italy#Recognition_of_same-sex_relationships Rick was clear and precise, as you demand, but you failed to comprehend what he wrote. You owe him an apology. To the others finding anti-Catholic sentiment in this post, As someone born and raised Catholic and returned from Italy (and a visit to the Vatican) just a week ago (loved the “Rick Steves(TM) backpack!), the comments here bashing Rick are an embarrassment. I hope people reading them don’t take away from them that they are in anyway a reflection on Catholics as a whole, because they certainly don’t speak for me.

  20. A_B, you beat me to the punch. Kath was so inflamed by what she THOUGHT she read that she didn’t go back to check it before she tried to torch Rick. Too bad. Rick is openly narrating to us on this blog what he sees and hears. He’s passing on comments he hears, that we here at home cannot. One other thing: there are those who comment here that forget that history is history, and that you can’t judge ancient civilizations by modern standards. So it is with the ancient Romans and Greeks. And Egyptians. The original Olympic Games were contested in the nude — ooooooh. The Romans kept boy lovers. But Egyptian royalty married their own siblings! Get over it, folks — this is history. We don’t do those things now, but back in the day they were the accepted and expected way of life. We don’t have shootouts on Main Street anymore, either. But that was normal in the US west only 125 or so years ago. Things change, but history is fact.

  21. Gays have no rights in the Church because homosexuality is against God’s law. Now it might be ok in Seattle and Rick Steve’s Secular world, but it is not OK in God’s. Having children as lovers is disgusting, immoral, abusive and any other rotten adjective you can come up with, yet Rick seems to think it is ok and castigates the Church for condeming it. And if you are concerned about “Shooting the messenger”, well don’t talk about such repulsive behavior. I for one am glad the Roman church still has a big influence over Italian society. In an age where Europe is turning away from God to materialistic worship, it is good to see that God still plays a part. As for your claim about the lack of churchgoers in Italy-you are wrong: Italians still go to church regularly. So if you are rooting for a gay friendly church, look to the Episcopal church in the USA and see how that once great denomination is sinking into the abyss.

  22. Even if it’s ‘gay couples’, it’s till not precise. My quibble was with NO and LEGAL RIGHTS. Gay couples obviously have legal rights, they may not have the right to marry or have recognized civil unions, that’s not the same as no legal rights. No legal rights could mean they couldn’t rent apartments together or live together or many other things. It would still have been better to say exactly what legal rights they do or do not have.

  23. All these words and for what? The accepted “truths” of the religions of today are different than the “truths” of centuries ago and radically different from the “truths” of millenia ago. Yet in each era the true believers curse the non-believers. After reading the righteously indignant posts from those who are Certain they are right and those who disagrees with their current version of the good book are damned wrong, well it’s laughable. In fact as I write this I am laughing because I was raised as a Catholic and after a lifetime of experience I no longer “practice” religon because I’ve come to accept the simple fact that all the religion anyone needs is this: Treat everyone like you yourself want to be treated. Such a Simple concept yet so very difficult to live – all because books tell us what to think and how to act. I say good on you, Rick! Keep travelling without the blinders on.

  24. I agree with an above posting–I find Rick Steves’ shows fascinating and his books invaluable in my traveling. However, every time I visit this site, I become less of a Rick Steves fan. His overt support of ultra-liberal causes is uncalled for in a travel guide, and his politicizing of this website is beneath him. I am neither Catholic nor Protestant–I strive to be just a Christian, unfortunately a rare concept in denominational Christianity. But I find Rick’s problem with the Catholic church ridiculous. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians, “Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral…nor homosexual offenders…will inherit the kingdom of God.” Jesus also said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” Those in any church who ignore God’s teaching on homosexuality–or any other issue–only endanger their own souls and those of others. Rick needs to stick to travel advice and leave his faulty opinions out of it.

  25. I enjoy this website much less than I have in the past. Mr.Steves has turned the site into a forum for Catholic bashing and I don’t like it.I have been a longtime fan but I would no longer purchase his products and will encourage others to do the same. I look to travel sites as a source of entertainment and friendly discussion.It would never occur to me to consider the political or religious views of other posters.Mr.Steves has taken the site in a new direction which I do not care for.

  26. Not having legal rights as a gay man or gay couple is as simple as not being protected from either church or socially sanctioned discrimination or harassment. Gay rights aren’t limited to being able to marry any more than straight rights are.

    The Judeo-Christian-Muslim belief system has sought to stigmatize this way of living for more than two thousand years, spreading hatred to cultures where it did not exist before. (See John Boswell’s books about how the Christian churches’ views on homosexuality have zero Biblical authority and have repeatedly changed.)

    If someone criticizes negative aspects of your culture, religion, or country, listen, evaluate, and move on. Don’t ease your conscience by dismissing legitimate criticisms as just hate-mongering.

  27. At 13 euros each, that’s about $400,000 revenue each morning simply from the museum. Um, Rick, are you completely clueless on how much money it takes to preserve, restore, and protect these pieces of art?? As for your fixation on the Vatican’s alleged wealth, I would suggest you look up how much money in charity was given out by the Catholic church last year. Also, remember that much of the alleged wealth can’t be given away. For example, the art treasures. If these were sold, there would be no further income from the Vatican museum, and hence no charity donations would be possible. Or, if you don’t want to do the research yourself, check out this: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Pope+is+rich!+And+other+Vatican+myths-a0126240209 “To put it bluntly, the Vatican is not rich. It has an annual operating budget of $260 million, which would not place it on any top 500 list of social institutions. To draw a comparison to the nonprofit sector, Harvard University has an annual operating budget of a little over $1.3 billion, which means it could run the equivalent of five Vaticans. This is to say nothing of the corporate world. Microsoft in 2002 spent $4.7 billion on research and development alone and has annual sales of $293 billion. On the scale of the world’s mammoth enterprises, the Vatican doesn’t rate. ” I don’t see you complaining about Harvard U, or Microsoft, do I? So please, stop spreading your anti-Catholic bigotry.

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