As the US presidential election nears, I am inundated with emails from Europeans telling me they will be ecstatic if Obama wins. I know that alone is enough to drive many proud Americans to vote for McCain.
I’ve been pondering the different ways Americans are received in Europe. When our current president visits a city, the place is literally shut down and his motorcade races through ghostly streets. When Obama visited Berlin, he was greeted by 200,000 Germans waving American flags. Impressively, the McCain campaign turned that into a negative, and Obama’s advisors decided not to gloat about his popularity among Europeans.
On my recent visit to Capitol Hill — where I talked with Members of Congress and their aides about American relations with the rest of the world — people from both parties were really into the concepts of “soft power” (creating goodwill, letting the ideals of America shine and inspire to complement our “hard power,” in which our military might forces compliance) and the “brand of America” (which all agreed needs some serious fixing for the good of our export trade…people just don’t want to “buy American” when it symbolizes torture, pre-emptive war, and a go-it-alone approach to the world).
While most of the European correspondence I’ve received simply begs us to elect Obama, this letter, from an American woman who married local guide Roberto Bechi in Italy, shares more introspectively the European sentiment about our election. (I have never encountered anything from a European favoring McCain over Obama, so I can’t be balanced here.)
27 October, 2008
Dear Editor,
I am a long-time Virginian, raised in Richmond and Harrisonburg. I graduated from D.S. Freeman High School in Richmond, hold two degrees from UVA, and am the (tax-paying) owner/employee of a small business based in Harrisonburg which promotes tours to Tuscany, Italy, my current residence. I am writing in hopes of contributing a bit of international perspective for those who are still undecided as to whether to vote for Senator Barack Obama or Senator John McCain in the presidential race Nov 4th.
America is and always will be my beloved homeland, despite the fact that I now live abroad. Therefore I have been greatly disheartened and dismayed by the changing attitude towards my country, seen first-hand in the comments and questions of my Italian neighbors. Ten years ago, I was the object of curiosity and admiration: upon meeting me, people proudly listed even distant relations in the USA, asked questions both about my culture and how one could visit or work there, and on occasion even marveled at my decision to move here. Alas, that is no longer the case.
Over the past eight years my neighbors’ questions have taken on an increasingly worried tone. They wondered aloud why my country consistently ignored the opinions of other nations in the events leading up to the invasion of Iraq. They asked, preoccupied, whether I really agreed with the use of preventative strikes, and wondered why even the massive public outcry against the war had no effect on public policy. The re-election of Bush made some ask whether all Americans were more concerned with terrorism than prosperity at home or abroad. The flouting of the Geneva conventions at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base further increased that impression…were Americans perhaps so obsessed with “security” that they preferred it to justice itself? It’s important to underline the fact that after 9/11, I was direct witness to an unbelievable outpouring of love and sympathy for my country even from perfect strangers who, upon hearing me speak in English, would stop to express their solidarity. The fact is that we have squandered that good will.
I don’t receive many inquiries about studying abroad in the USA anymore, despite the weak dollar. Our country is not seen to be as welcoming as it once was, for one thing: even if students wish to study in the USA, visas are much more difficult to come by. Furthermore, the attitude of the Bush administration has clearly shown that the US government prefers arms to education, and supports a quasi-religious zealotry over scientific research.
I can assure you, as an American living abroad, that we have lost our moral authority. Where we were once seen as yes, ambitious, but also thrifty, honest, and defenders of the poor, we are now seen to be a nation at once self-centered and overbearing. Europeans no longer count on us to side with projects for the greater good after our willful disregard for the U.N. and refusal to sign on to international agreements like Kyoto.
The moralizing of this administration, particularly regarding issues like human rights and the “right-to-life,” is seen as hypocritical. Why? This is in light of our own human-rights violations, among which can be counted the use of torture at undisclosed locations, our continuing use of the death penalty (illegal in most of the civilized world, and abolished here in Tuscany in 1786!), and now-well-known issues like the fact that 58 million Americans are without healthcare. While Italians are hardly unaccustomed to comical politics with a figure like Berlusconi at the helm, the nomination of Sarah Palin to the McCain ticket has inspired a mixture of amused disbelief and horror. (“Is it true she could not name a single newspaper?”)
I still believe that the United States of America can be a force for good in the world. Despite the current economic mess, we wield great economic and military power. My neighbors here in Italy have not lost faith in their neighbor across the Atlantic. But do not doubt that the world is anxiously awaiting our decision, and desperately hoping that we will turn the page, and move towards collaboration rather than bullying, generosity and outreach rather than withdrawal and protectionism, and healthy growth rather than dangerous, unrestrained greed. Like him or not, Senator Barack Obama is the president who has the best chance of healing our nation and its relationship with the rest of the world. I know — I live there.
Yours sincerely,
Patricia Robison Bechi
Siena, Italy
Like your books and respect you for the material but the political stuff is making me not want to buy your books. I want to travel not be directed in the “correct way” to vote or think.
Rick, it’s to be expected that European’s, who tend to lean towards socialism, would prefer Obama….. he’s more like them! No surprise there. I do find it interesting though, that as much as America has been criticized for our ‘go it alone’ approach, that as soon as there’s a crisis anywhere in the world, they look to us to save their sorry butts!
Rick, I totally agree with the letter. We have hosted exchange students from all over the world and traveled to Europe regularly (including this past summer). We have heard all of the things the writer mentions. Why on earth did we re-elect Bush? Why do we react unilaterally instead of trying to work with our allies? No matter who the next President is, hopefully the American “brand” will regain its luster. Most of my contacts seem to place the blame squarely on the President and not on Americans in general; once we replace the President, they are certain things will get better. My son wore an Obama shirt during our two weeks in Europe this year and got stopped by waiters, street sweepers, and pretty girls who all wanted to have their picture taken with an ‘Obama American’. I think that perhaps McCain just hasn’t gotten the kind of attention that Obama has, but I think Europeans would embrace him as well once they get to know him.
I spend the winter in Europe each year. I have a very visible and public job and I wear an American flag patch on my official jacket and well as “USA” and other things that distinguish me as an American. Thus, I am approached by Europeans all day long, every day. Years ago, I was approached more for social and cultural exchange conversations. Now, it is almost all political. They are all alarmed that a good portion of our public and government seem to subscribe to the fascist views of the Fox network and other extremist right wing outlets. They believe our culture has changed for the worse and we have infected the world as past totalitarian governments in the past have. I cannot disagree with them, as we have a military presence in about 145 out of the 195 countries of the world and ignore laws, treaties and boundries at will. I try to hold up my end and make sure my team and I represent the ideals we were all once known for. But I cannot lie to them. We have become ugly Americans. All I can do is try to weather the storm, the assault on our country from within.
I have been a U.S. citizen for 22 yrs now, and before that had Canadian and British citizenship. I’ve travelled extensively since I was young (am now 65). Both my brothers have also travelled extensively. This posting was right on target, and I feel really sad about it. I know that some people don’t like it when Rick “goes political”, but travel IS political. Every time an American has any kind of contact with someone from a foreign culture, that person acts in a mini-diplomatic role, whether consciously or not. What Ms Bechi wrote is painfully accurate. Our country is running on empty as far as worldwide goodwill is concerned. If McCain/Palin win this election, I am seriously considering whether or not to remain living in the U.S. I love it here, and accept the U.S. warts and all, but another four years of “we are the answer to all the world’s problems” is intolerable to me. Poor Obama is going to be one heavily burden laden man if he wins. But I hope he does win!
Terry…..Fascist views of Fox? Are you kidding me! You must be sitting in some pot bar in Amsterdam typing on your computer! If you can see through the haze, take a look at this http://www.journalism.org/node/13436. The graphs between McCain and Obama are essentially identical.
Patricia, Thank you for your frank view of how America, politically, has lost its positive qualities, and we seem bent on being a nation of extreme individualism, to the point that we don’t care about torture, war or ethics. We just have to be right even when we are wrong and boy have we been wrong these past few years. I still can’t believe our country has done some of the things we have done: invade another country illegally and on false pretenses, agreed to use torture, and passed a law, the Patriot Act, that violates the Constitution. We have a lot to atone for and we have a lot to fix. I think Obama will help lead us on the right path.
Rick as one of your own guides once said to me in London, ” Ah the French. They are always there when they need you!” Why should we be overly concerned what Europeans think of our presidential choice? I am not sure if you have noticed but there seems to be a decided turn to the right in recently elected Heads of State over there. I seem to remember the Demokrat Party having a cow over the Patriot Act and how our rights were being trampled. Bush, it was said, would be screening our emails and opening our letters to Aunt Maude. Well,,, I have not heard of a single case of any citizens rights being so trampled by the Bush administration in my humble rural surroundings. However many of your adroit readers have heard of Joe the Plumber. He has had his life turned inside out by the Ohio Demokrat Party and their sycophants in the media and State government agencies. Three different State agencies have performed searches on his private records. Helen Jones-Kelley, the director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services first approved plumbing the plumber. Jones-Kelley happens to be a maximum $2300 contributor to Obama’s campaign. What did the plumber do to deserve his private life being searched by the State of Ohio? He asked Obama a question on the rope line and received an answer with some clarity on B.O.’s socialistic views on “spreading the wealth around” Are all of you Liberals comfortable with that? Bush cannot check phone calls being placed to known terrorists but a lifelong private citizen of the USA can have his private life split wide open because he asks a politician a question about his proposed policies? I can see why certain Europeans would be a bit worried about our election. Especially citizens of the former U.S.S.R.
Ken….. Bravo!
When I was in Europe this summer, several people asked me why we in the U.S. had re-elected the “idiot cowboy”, George Bush. My reply was that there had not been a second terrorist attack after 9/11 in the U.S. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not. Please also keep in mind that Harry Truman was vilified when he left office and is now hailed as one of our greatest presidents by Republicans and Democrats alike.The Europeans are entitled to their opinions, but they don’t vote here, for which we can only be grateful
Ken, how dare you point a finger at that the righteous Liberals of our nation! These are people who love diversity, support with all the very core of their being as long as you think exactly like they do. If you don’t, they are ready to torture, persecute, even burn you at the stake for attacking their superior thought processes. Does anyone else feel like hypocrisy runs amok when it comes to politics? This just reeks to me. When I hear stupid comments like fascist Fox (please wake the heck up and realize that there is not a single neutral station)! This is the kind of ignorance that promotes balkanization of countries…it is too easy to fight rather than understand or see reality. It is like society is full of rhinoceroses. What is without doubt is that the US has made many gross mistakes during its history. We need to stop funding the military might for the free world and Europe must begin to fund their own military ventures completely. We should review how and what countries we support and why. If we acted more like the Europeans we would have a lot more Darfurs in the world. Should the world ignore, as it has, this degree of genocide or should it act? Should we as a nation emulate the individual in a crowd that steps forward and acts to protect a victim or are we more comfortable standing back, promoting pacifism by closing our eyes and turning our backs unless everyone is ready to defend the helpless? In this group its seems like we have a lot of Neros ready to play the violin while the world burns. Let’s not paint the conversation is such simplistic terms of black and white.
Michael B….. excellent points! Europe has for far too long remained in the shadows while the U.S. has had to go it alone in standing up for the Durfurians of the world. It’s time they step up to the plate and take some responsibility. I think the only reason most of them are in NATO (Now America Takes Over) is to tie themselves to the bad azz big brother that we are, who will fight on their behalf. There likely isn’t a nation in the EU that has enough military might to defend itself. I also think it’s interesting that of the European nations that are stepping up (U.K. aside) it’s the ones who most recently escaped from the clutches of tyranny (i.e Poland, Czech Republic). They understand more than the others, how precious freedom is, and that injustice must be tackled head on if it is to be vanquished.
To those on the Right: I am saddened by the depth of your hostility. The seething hatred of some people during this election has left a disgusting taste in my mouth. Rick is simply relating the undeniable fact that Europeans dislike President Bush, and prefer Obama. So why should we care? Well, if you don’t care about Europe, then why are you reading this blog? Europeans don’t like Obama because he’s a “socialist” (which he isn’t–if you think he is, take a trip to Eastern Europe), but because they can see he’s rational, intelligent, and has the interests of the whole world in mind. Please, let’s try to keep this discussion civil. Don’t post unless you have something calm, thoughtful, and constructive to add.
Greg, Yes, the “fascist views of Fox” scare Europeans because it is clear they are being adopted by a large segment of our USA opulation. You didn’t address that comment, instead you talked about negative vs positive reports of various shows. Apples to oranges, my friend. My comment was about “content” and my charge stands. Find a reputable study that compares quanity of facsist “content” between/among the networks and we can continue the discussion. For dinner tonight, I had Utah pheasant and an Australian Chardonnay. Sorry, not pot. Imagine that! A liberal that doesn’t smoke pot. Must be as rare as a righty that isn’t prone to hysteria.
Rick, You have joined the “now that I have all I need, I’ll lobby to get others to give away theirs.” Your best option would be to totally serve that contingent that has less. Turn you company into a full non-profit, turn over your salary, get your family to stay home – not burn carbon (because you won’t have the funds to buy your way out). Your credibility would be enhanced, although no big time Capital Hill liberals would not give you the time of day. Try it – you found your income through pure capitalism – what other country gave you that opportunity????? Stick to your travel tasks – it is very transparent of you to rail against George Bush and America, in favor of the power you need in a liberal agenda. Sad to see through you – Joe
Rick, you are right. I have only been to Europe three times since 9/11/2001. Anecdotally, Europeans that I talked to, do not like Bush. Sometimes I am not crazy about him either. America was the one that suffered a terrorist attack that caused the largest loss of life in my lifetime. For me, 9/11/01 changed everything. Europeans have suffered attacks, but none like America’s.
To ConcernedVoter: Bravo. Well said!
To ConcernedVoter: Bravo. Well said!
Well rick this looks like another firestorm blog in the making. After sept’s month-end blogs by the hundred, half or more just slamming other bloggers viewpoints, these all-hallow’s eve responses start sounding the same. Interesting how much your blog can be used by some just to give an excuse to rants-often from both aisle sides. So rick let your web/blog policy do as indicated. When bloggers just rail at/attack or try to over-prove that other guy is wrong, just follow rules like no more then two comments per blog, no harsh criticism of bloggers and stick to the subject. The blog subject is a letter, regarding european attitudes expressed to patricia personally. These same views have been expressed likewise to me, personally, by numerous european friends, family, and brief conversations in ticket lines, or in trains. No one by reading this blog is being “directed in the correct way to think or vote.” Nothing is expressed in pat’s letter that justifies saying we “saved their sorry butts.” Please respond on point-what have europeans said to you personally. So think, not just react. Please, address the subject. To clarify, compare above louisa’s blog followed by micheal b. One uses personal experience, the other does not. Or we could just continue to do as many have and not treat the blog subject and blog responders respectfully and directly.
Being too young to remember McCarthyism, I don’t understand the “socialist” slur. It seems to me, the Scandinavian countries are essentially socialist, and everyone there seemed happy, healthy and prosperous to me. I guess that that is why Republicans are in such deep trouble here politically. They seem to be making the same tired arguments from the sixties. I, for one, can’t wait for battles between the hippies and the Nixonites to end.
Alright — I’ll join in. I’m not nearly as erudite as many on this board, but I would like to ask —- why do we care what the Europeans think of how Americans run their country?! One reason they think Obama is the best is because they listen to CNN and MSNBC and the like. That’s where they get their view of America. Obama’s view is socialistic — tell me in which country that has worked? America as a republic has existed for less than 300 years —- are we going to throw away our Constitution so we can emulate countries that have given away their freedoms over the past 1000 years? I love travel as much as anyone — but I love coming home even more.
To Concerned Voter Well said. Thank you. No matter anyone’s opinions, what we need is logical, calm conversation. Progress is not made by name-calling, stubbornness, or refusing to listen (really listen) to differing opinions. It’s made by understanding we may not agree on everything, but we need each other. We have to work within the system that we have now–one party is not going to eliminate the other and even if they did, it would only lead to sub-divisions. I think the VAST majority of Americans want the best for this country. We may not agree on what that is or how to get there, but we need to listen to each other and work on compromise or we’re going to fail in many more ways than we already are.
Oh, and the reason that it is at least a little important to care about Europe and the rest of the world is that we are a global community. The US can’t do everything alone and it’s good to have international friends for trade, protection, alliances, etc.
Excellent posting Rick. I have found the same response to Bush from Mexicans when I have been in the Yucatan. I do not understand some of the comments posted by others. Bush can not check phone calls placed to known terrorists? What the H is this about? Under FISA, even before 9-11 and the Patriot Act, this could be done. Do the other commenters know for a fact that Obama was promoting socialism when he said spread the wealth around? Could it be possible he was merely expressing a desire to have workers be paid a living wage for their work and have a share of the wealth their work helps create. Do you know what multiple of the average workers yearly wage the typical exec at a US corp is paid? How does this compare to the 1960s and 1970s? Maybe the people up in arms about Obama’s comment would like to get rid of all minimum wage laws, even bring back slavery. When there is a large spread between the most well paid (even when they do a lousy job like the Wall Street gangs) and the worst paid, a socirty is in trouble. I can only surmise the Rethugs are in favor of socialism when they and their friends are on the receiving end. It seems under the Rethugs we have privatization of profits and socialization of losses.
When are we as americans going to wise up? Yeah, it will be bad if McCain and Palin get in. but not that bad. Yeah, Obama might be a better choice. but he’s not that great of a choice. the point America, and Europe for that matter, is missing is that there is no real difference between the republicans and democrats. They are the same. They campaign with different smoke screen, non-sensical issues effortlessly looking for us to take a side. This is only a diversion to sway simple minds, and the overly moral or liberal puppets. The real fact is that Obama is not the answer or savior of America. When he gets in office, nothing significant will change. OUr taxes will go up. but we wont see any of this returned to us. we never do. America needs a thrid party, and we need it soon. Otherwise, i have to refer to the south park episode in which the only two candidates we have to choose from are a duech bag and a shit sandwich. because the reality of the situation is that thats all we have right now. We already pay an enormous amout of taxes. we see nothing in return, and we never will. its time we get away from the idea of a republican or democrat president and government. it doesnt matter who gets elected, nothing will change. We need a third party.
I readily admit I am but a simple minded country lad but perhaps we should respond to Patricia’s letter. She states, “whether all Americans were more concerned with terrorism than prosperity at home or abroad.” Answer, yes. Had we suffered another attack we would be in more economic trouble than now by far. Do you not remember only 7 years ago? “Our country is not seen to be as welcoming as it once was, for one thing: even if students wish to study in the USA, visas are much more difficult to come by” Could this possibly be due to the fact that some of our former foreign students came to study one-way airline piloting skills? “Europeans no longer count on us to side with projects for the greater good after our willful disregard for the U.N.” Would our disregard be based on the total lack of any accomplishments by U.N., or the fact the U.N. has used its authority to rape and molest citizens around the globe,or perhaps you have heard of the OIL FOR FOOD program? ” and refusal to sign on to international agreements like Kyoto.” I believe you need to address that one to Clinton/Gore. Speaking of Clinton I have photos of Clinton being hanged and burned in effigy not in the USA but taken in Italy, and that was when the entire world LOVED the USA.? “The moralizing of this administration, particularly regarding issues like human rights and the “right-to-life,†is seen as hypocritical” I know liberals have always had a problem with this one. The key element here is a thing called guilt. Many of us here in the USA think that a fetus is without guilt, while a person who rapes then chops up his 11 year old victim after days of torture, has guilt and actually earned death. During an ETBD tour our Dutch guide upon hearing the verdict of guilty (there’s that word again) for the murderer of Theo Van Gogh, expressed a wish that he be extradited so he could be executed. This was 2 days after a discussion we had about how barbaric the USA was for capital punishment!
Am trying to think of something constructive to add. First, Patricia’s letter to the editor pretty much reflects the popular view in Vienna too. Regarding “who cares what the Europeans think” and “we don’t need them anyway”, I would only say that I work in a very international job and we (my other American colleagues and I) work day-to-day with the Europeans, Canadians, Australians, Japanese and other friends to make progress on a lot of routine non-earthshaking issues. The world would be a bigger mess than it is if everyone always went their own way. While we need not slavishly follow their every view, the Europeans are still some of our closest time-tested friends in the world and we should thoughtfully consider their views, just as we would consider the views of our friends in our private lives. It is easy to build walls and retreat to fortress America, but the reality is that a willingness to engage in multilateralism yields results: Millions of kids in Africa get immunized. Refugees get fed. Industrial, trade and transport requirements are standardized to facilitate free trade. Trade in endangered spiecies is prohibited. Police forces communicate with each other and cooperate in stopping international crime. To make this work, there has got to be a willingness to give as well as take. So, does it matter what the Europeans think? I don’t know. Does it matter if you’ve alienated everyone at your neighborhood PTA and now no one wants to give you the benefit of the doubt on any issue? Maybe it doesn’t. But propably a lot more work would get done if the level of animosity could be lowered a few degrees.
Terry……. define YOUR view of ‘fascist’. Prior to World War II fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States. But of course, progressives have tried to pin this word on conservatives. If you study the history of it, you’ll see it rests squarely on the shoulders of the left.
Rick, I love your show, your books, and agree with your travel philosophy. However, politics has no place in this forum. I was disappointed at your show in Aurora, Illinois and am disappointed in this article. I am voting for Obama but that should have no bearing on where to eat, drink, and how to get around in this world.
As a dual nationality British/USA citizen, may I make one observation – whatever your views on the letter which Rick posted, it is mind-boggling to me, both from the comments on this blog and my experience of living in the USA (since 1997) how many Americans, principally those on the right of the political spectrum, appear to be unable to distinguish between socialism and communism, let alone the perverted form of communism that was inflicted on the USSR, and then Eastern Europe. Folks, get one thing into your heads. However much it may be repeated by the politically ignorant or just plain bigoted, SOCIALISTS ARE NOT COMMUNISTS. Large sections of Western Europe have had socialist governments – I myself grew up under Harold Wilson’s Labour party governments of 1964-1976 (with the hole of the Heath years) and then the further three years or so under Jim Callaghan. Socialist, absolutely. Communist, never. And yes, there is a world of difference between the USA and England, just as there is a world of difference between how England PERCEIVES the USA, and vice versa. A lot of what you read isn’t true, at least in my own FIRST-HAND experience. It doesn’t matter whether you listen to Fox, CNN or the BBC. EVERY third party news source has its own particular slant on things. The only way to truly find out what’s going on is to listen to the people who actually live there, or to go and see for yourself. And as for Rick posting the ‘letter from Italy’, he did say he didn’t have one to even the balance. Those of you on the right of the political debate, you know the answer – go through your friends and contacts abroad, and find someone willing to write a letter to Rick espousing the Republican cause.
Unfortunately, they’re illegally contributing to his campaign as well.
Italians don’t live in the U.S. and should understand their bias toward favorable foreign U.S. policy and ignorance of domestic U.S. policy. The Presidential election will be decided on the shape of the economy – not on whether Europeans like or dislike the U.S. The current recession will hurt the incumbent party and that is why Obama will win. Your Italian friends should surely understand that an American is going to vote for whoever will bring them the most prosperity, and issues like the Kyoto treaty, capital punishment, and the U.N. are of little concern to most of the electorate. Although most Americans were upset about Iraq, that war appears to have been successful. Iraq may very well be considered by historians as the first war the U.S. has won since WWII. As shocking as this may sound now, George Bush’s legacy may be that of a war hero who held off Islamic terrorism, especially if Iraq becomes a model for Middle Eastern democracy.
…an American is going to vote for whoever will bring them the most prosperity, and issues like the Kyoto treaty, capital punishment, and the U.N. are of little concern to most of the electorate. Though the time will surely come when they will wish that Kyoto, at least, had been of a little more concern to them. Mother Nature does not recognise political boundaries…
Hmmph! So much for the “quote” facility. The first sentence of my previous posting was from John J. Bannan’s post. Let’s do it my way… [John J. Bannan] …an American is going to vote for whoever will bring them the most prosperity, and issues like the Kyoto treaty, capital punishment, and the U.N. are of little concern to most of the electorate. [Me] Though the time will surely come when they will wish that Kyoto, at least, had been of a little more concern to them. Mother Nature does not recognise political boundaries…
Once again Rick feels the need to throw some red meat to his sycophants on the left (“great post Rick, Bush and McCain and Palin are fascist idiots, and so is Fox News”) while trying to educate the poor uneducated masses of the right. Does he really think he’s changing anyone’s mind with this? I have some suggestions for those of you out there who enjoy the travel aspect of these posts, and admire Rick as a truly inspired travel writer who has made independent European travel less intimidating and more rewarding, but are tired of the simplistic political posts, followed by combative comments from the right and left. First, continue to enjoy the blog, but don’t let any of it get under your skin. Really, both sides get pretty amusing when they’re all riled up. Respond when you feel the need, but don’t get emotional. Second, and most important, if you wish Rick would keep the politics out of the travel, in the same way almost all of us keep politics (and religion)out of our jobs, stop sending him your money. Don’t sign up for his tours, don’t go to his lectures, and most importantly, don’t buy his books. Most libraries have copies of his books. Check them out of the library for your trip. Most of the info in the Rick guides can be read ahead of time, anyway, and even if you take them to Europe and keep them past their due date, its only 10 cents a day. Still cheaper than buying them, and the money goes to support your local library, not Rick. Lonely Planet serves as a good alternative guidebook. We used it on a trip to Paris last year, and it was very helpful. Now, Rick’s museums tours are absolutely the best. I wouldn’t go without them, but hey, that’s what the library is for, or maybe a used book store, or ebay. Of course Rick has the right to lecture us about politics all he wants, and we have the right to respond, as long as we keep it civil, and legal.
If we have lost our moral authority with the Europeans they still don’t mind taking money from us do they. The UN is an irrelevant organization overshadowed by more relevant and useful IGO’s and NGO’s. I have been reading this blog for months and having been an avid European traveler it makes me want to stay home the next few years and see America. And since we will be taxed to death under a full Democratic court to fund their objectives, the Europeans will get what they want- seeing alot less Americans over in Europe.They won’t have to deal with our crasness and money.
As I recall, the Puritans came across the pond so they might primarily have religious freedom. They did not want to told how they would have to live and believe in that regard. President Bush is an Evangelical Christian who has different religious views from most Europeans. How surprizing that they would not agree with his stands on most issues. We got into this whole mess because a radical group of Muslims came to our land, attacked us because they don’t agree with our “morality” which basically stems from our basically Christian society. In Europe, when these radicals don’t agree with a nation, i.e. Spain, they bomb the train stations just before election time and voila, the electorate puts the radicals candidate of choice into office. Is that the kind of electorate we want to be? We were never intended to think like Europeans. And, by God, I will not let a European or radical Islamic group prefence ever be the deciding factor in who I cast a vote for. Rick, aren’t you only a second or third generation American? What was your families reason for coming to the US? I am a fifth generation Texan, a decendant of the first govenor of Rhode Island, had family members die in the Civil War, Revolutionary War, and Jamestown Colony. I am also a decendant of William the Conqueror and Charlemagne. I love my European roots but must say I love my freedom more. And I can’t help but notice how well the American dream has worked out for you only after a couple generations. Couldn’t help but notice Goergetown was on the list as the third most expensive University in the United States. Andy obviously doesn’t have to work his way through college and has plenty of time to drink his way accross Europe. Have you considered returning to Norway and paying their tax rate? Jan
I sometimes wonder why I read the comments, as so many of the commentators have apparently not actually travelled anywhere else in the world. I inevitably get annoyed with the idiotic “America is perfect, why should we pay attention to what Europe thinks” comments that I read here. Yet here I am again. Anti-Rick people – this is Rick’s blog. He can post what he likes. You don’t have to read it. If you don’t agree with his opinions, or those of the people that he may choose to quote, then don’t read it. If you don’t want to buy his books, then don’t. If you don’t like Europe or Europeans, and don’t want to hear what they have to say…then really, why are you here? Masochism? Or am I reading the voice of people just so out of touch that this is the only forum that anyone will listen to them? Find a real life, and for that matter, how about apply for a passport so you can get a grip on the bigger world.
It’s always interesting to hear different points of view. Otherwise life could get boring.
Greg, I think wikipedia covers the definition of fascism better than I can. Odd that you would think fascism is an ideology of todays left. From wiki: “Fascism is a totalitarian nationalist ideology[1][2][3] that is primarily concerned with perceived problems associated with cultural, economic, political, and social decline or decadence. It seeks to solve such problems by achieving a millenarian national rebirth by exalting the nation or race as well as promoting cults of unity, strength and purity.[4][5][6][7][8] Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism (including collectivism and populism based on nationalist values); Third Position (including class collaboration, corporatism, economic planning, mixed economy, national socialism, national syndicalism, protectionism,); totalitarianism (including dictatorship, holism, major social interventionism, and statism); and militarism.[9][10] Fascism opposes communism, liberalism, conservatism and the international left.”
It’s interesting to see one poster suggest the Lonely Planet guides as an alternative. I suspect the Lonely Planet editors would make Rick look like a right-wing America Firster.
I’m flattered by the attention to my letter, and not troubled by the discussion generated: that’s pretty much what we aim for in democracy. Here’s my 2 cents for Ken: I’m not convinced that we’ve avoided another terrorist attack because of war-mongering..nor am I convinced that only the continental US is at risk for attacks. I strongly support security measures like behavior-profiling (much better than ethnic profiling) and inspecting containers, for example, but fear that our foreign policies under Bush have given birth to many more terrorists than they have dissuaded. I certainly hope to be wrong. I think our university system -Americans- in the USA will lose out financially and intellectually due to the restrictions on Visas. The foreign students won’t lose out- they just go elsewhere. I agree the U.N. needs reform, but ignoring it or using it for a podium just when we please doesn’t seem to me the best route. Ken, we’ll never agree on the death penalty. I have actually lost a friend to murder, and feel certain that her killer will face a greater judgment than mere humans can impose, but frankly, I would oppose his execution as a taxpayer as much as I do as a Christian: it costs taxpayers about $90,000 MORE per person per year to hold someone on death row than life-prisoners cost us. I somewhat regret having included inflammatory issues like the death penalty in this letter, because I believe the USA needs Mr Obama at the helm right now, and giving voice to my more liberal leanings emphasizes my differences with those who might otherwise support him.
I don’t get the political propaganda so close to the election date, we all have our minds made up who we are or are not voting for and probably a third of the people have voted already. So how about moving past this election thing and get back to some other kind of postings.
Each American should be required to spend a month volunteering abroad, preferably when we are in high school, before hardened political ideology has set in. We would understand the world better, become better global citizens, and would vote not just for our own self-interests but also what is best for our planet. As the recent economic crisis, global warming, and 9/11 has shown, the days of living in isolated self-interest as Americans is rapidly disappearing.
Vince, turn that around and every european should be required to spend a month volunteering here before they become hardened to hating us for what we have. Had we stayed isolationists instead of bailing out Europe think how much richer and better off we would be.
Europeans should shut up. I have been going to Europe since I was a small child in the 70’s, and they have always had disdain for us. They hated Carter AND they hated Reagan. When I was there in 1992, everyone was asking why America didn’t fix the problems in Yugoslavia, when they were RIGHT NEXT DOOR. If they like Obama so much, they can have him. PS- The reason the rally in Berlin was so big? They had free entertainment, food, and beer. Rick, if you hate money so much, give it away. And if you want to share the pie, you can help send my kids to Georgetown and Notre Dame. My daughter is very intelligent, but I can’t afford those schools and in the middle class, we can’t get the financial aid that would help there.
I know this may seem like a dumb question, but does everyone understand that Bush is not running for re-election? Despite what Obama’s well run (but quite superficial) campaign would have you believe, Obama is running against John McCain, a man with a record of distinguished service to his country that absolutely dwarfs Obama’s. I suspect that Europeans who take an interest in American politics know precious little about John McCain. Unlike Obama, McCain is guilty of running an ineffective campaign, but a campaign is no indication of presidential qualifications. Certainly, Jimmy Carter ran a masterful campaign for “change” once upon a time, but no one longs for the “good old Carter days.” Also, I seem to recall the Bush administration making great efforts to build a coalition prior to taking military action in Iraq but being rebuffed by the European powers. Should the U.S. take action only when the rest of the world gives its permission? I, for one, do not want my government ceding its authority to the European powers. If I did, perhaps I would move to Tuscany as well.
It’s been very interesting to read this very spirited discussion from both sides of the political spectrum. I especially enjoyed Patricia’s very articulate letter with the opinions and concerns expressed by those on the other side of the pond. There seems to be an enormous amount of interest in this particular US election judging by news reports I’ve seen from here in Canada, from the UK and also Italy (I have access to TG 24 and watch it almost daily). It’s not hard to understand the high level of interest, as the actions of one country often affect one or more others in some significant way. One example of this might be the sub-prime mortgage situation (reportedly originating in the US???), which has detrimentally affected so many economies in the world. It will be interesting to see which leader you choose on Tuesday (hopefully they have the problems sorted with the voting machines by then, described on 20-20 last night). I’m sure there are others like myself who are “interested observers” in your political process and the direction this will take after the election. Hopefully you’ll vote in greater numbers than we did in our recent Federal election (Oct. 14th), where the voter turnout was the lowest in history (59%~).
Rick — your travel shows are great, however please leave your European political beliefs out. Europeans have little to say of our political process; to this day they cannot control their own backyard events as evidenced with the Balkan wars. Only when Americans have stepped in did Europeans experience freedom from themselves.
I love Europe and the Europeans, and plan to continue to travel there as often as I can, to Italy in particular, but we’ll care and head European opinions on our electoral process just as soon as they can put a lid on producing some of the most destructive human beings the planet has ever known: Napoleon, Wilhelm II, Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Stalin, Tito, Kruschev, Milosovic, now Putin…the list goes on. Past U.S. presidents have made mistakes, Bush has made mistakes, and future presidents will make mistakes, but if you compare the last 232 years of American history to the last 232 years of European history, I think you’ll find that I trust our people to make the right and better political decisions more often the we can trust the Europeans to do the same. Obama? McCain? Either way, I think our country will benefit from either of these candidates, and our will continue to prosper and solve problems despite heckling antipathy from European arm-chair elites. Now, pass me an espresso and a cornetto, and let’s talk football! :)
Ditto Ryan M, well done
The dearth of historical knowlege, context and logic on this site is stunning. You shouldn’t care what the europeans (or the rest of the world)thinks? Amazing! USA prosperity would have been as great had you only sold your goods to yourselves? Incredible! You are justified in destroying any semblance of international law and are upset when others don’t agree to join the mob? Hilarious! The USA acts like it has a bacterial infection of the brain. You should all be on antibiotics at the very least.
An interesting letter, Rick. I like the point of view.
Patricia I feel honored to have received your 2¢. My simple mind has not grasped if your husband is one of Rick’s local guides or if he is an independent guide who does not guide ETBD groups. One of the main reasons my wife and I love ETBD so very much is because of the quality of personnel that Rick employees. The local guides can really MAKE the travel experience! While I seldom agree on politics with them, which hardly arises anyway, I always enjoy and respect their knowledge and love for their country. We will not change either of our opinions but to read through liberal reasoning is always enlightening. Now back to your letter. You don’t think our war-mongering has prevented another attack? What would you attribute it to? You have to admit getting many of the terrorists in one location as in Iraq and then obliterating them was a great idea. 8^) I believe ALL profiling should be used, after all the 9-11 boys did all seem to fit one mould. Why not use all means available? Have you ever experienced an act of terrorism? My wife and I took our niece and nephew for a one month tour of Europe for their graduation gift in July 2005. We started the month with a ETBD week in London. We were descending to the Victoria Station tube on 7 July when the street level gates closed behind us and the lights flashed, as we tried to board the train the horns started blaring and the notice to exit the tube was announced. This was when the bombs were detonating two stations away. Much more to the story but the point is that one takes this terrorism thing a bit more seriously when experienced at close range. What do you think Obama has said or done in his life that would make you think he would do anything effective against terrorists? I have listened with ears of the hopeful and have come up empty. McCain leaves no doubt that he has, can and will deal with America’s enemies effectively. I would never vote for McCain on his own but against Barry it is no brainer. CIAO!
I am always amazed at the tone of discussion on this blog when politics are mentioned. Such venom. Sometimes I feel that we hardly need any external enemies; we seem to hate each other so very much. And a reminder that it is Rick’s blog, and he can talk about anything he wants. He surely knows if it costs him business.
Lil..I don’t know if you realize it but you put that exact thing down every single time a political blog comes on board. Maybe switch up the words a little next time??
I am a fiscally conservative; socially liberal person who loves to travel. I have been saddened by the conversations I have had when traveling overseas in the past three to four years. I am proud of my country. I love our freedoms; I listen to Michael Savage and Limbaugh and they absolutely drive me nuts. But I treasure my right to listen to them and my right to disagree with them. And my right to turn them off. Our greatest strength as a nation is the debate we see here in this blog and that is our weakness as well. I do believe that a change in administration will do us as a nation a lot of good in this world. Hopefully we will again stand for tolerance and freedom and regain that credibility in the world we once had.
Given the choice between the good will of the citizens of Tuscany and seven years of a domestic terrorism free USA, I think I know which one I’ll take. Bush has made a boatload of mistakes, but how many of us, on 9/12/2001, thought that there would be no more major acts of terrorism in the USA for seven years? Of course the Europeans loved us on 9/11 when we looked just as weak as them. Its only when we are strong that they villify us and our leaders. Envy is a powerful motivator, isn’t it. One more thing, please don’t call him Obambam, ok. Its demeaning to him….and to you. The same goes for the other users of derogatory nicknames. Please stop. It really lowers the level of discourse.
I am just impressed that someone in Italy would know about our VP candidates!
The funny thing is that Sarah Palin apparently read the newspaper from front to back as a child per her siblings (and this is not recent news.) I think she was more dumbfounded that she was asked such ridiculously stupid questions. I would be astonished if everytime I was interviewed it was a pop-quiz to prove how stupid I was instead of a serious discussion about issues or my positions. Didn’t Italy elect a porn star into office a few years back? (And I don’t have a problem with that, but think about it.)
I am an American living in Europe for 16 years. The world has changed. Powers are emerging in Asia. We face enormous global issues. I see two possible outcomes of the elections: 1. America continues on the track it is on, many people needlessly suffer and America becomes less and less powerful and more isolated or 2. Americans have the courage to embrace change, despite all the risks and fear that choosing change brings, in a CLEAR CALL FOR NATIONAL UNITY AND INTERNATIONAL MULTILATERALISM. In this scenario, America can lead again, because it will have followers! New powers of the globe will be influenced and need to contend with the real principles of Democracy, that we all learned in kindergarten, not going it alone, but democratic dialogue and common interest. We can be forgotten or shine our best colors. Perhaps it is about remembering our roots. Let’s remember that America is the most wonderful and successful experiment of Democracy on the earth. This is the moral authority we can have in the world. And this should not be squandered.
I’m a South African, now living in the UK. I have lived in or visited several countries over the past 12 years and I can definitely corroborate the assertion that the general opinion of the USA (and particularly of Bush) has worsened year by year. People are amazed at the arrogance of Americans who claim that their country is the world’s saviour and policeman, but who don’t seem to care about the opinions of those that they think they’re saving and policing. People are also wistful about the American dream – about the hope and empowerment and sense of possibility that this used to represent, even for people who would never actually visit the USA. Economically, the good will of the world is very important to the USA and the loss of that dream could have very serious repercussions. I would encourage anyone who hasn’t done so already to sign the Avaaz petition and consider donating to support this lovely positive ad in aid of change: http://www.avaaz.org/en/for_all_of_us I’m not a member of Avaaz, by the way, but I do think that this is a really positive contribution that both Americans and non-Americans can make.
Oops, sorry, I was wrong about “both Americans and non-Americans” in the previous post. The idea is for the World to tell America what they think – so pass it on to your non-American friends.
I live in Florence Italy and am acutely aware of the changing value of the soft power American can project into the world today as a result of our having elected, twice, a man like George Bush as our leader. His policies have often been illegal and they have hurt us, both at home and abroad. For 4 years I have worked to establish a Democrats Abroad chapter here in Florence and we have seen amazing growth. We have found Americans living in the pockets of the Tuscan hills who, some for the first time, want to participate again in their country’s political life. The several Republicans I know who live here are overwhelmingly voting Democratic this year. It is wrong to be snide about our European allies and foolish to want to apply easy labels like “socialist” to their form of democracy. There is no doubt that by electing Barack Obama the United States will take a giant step toward healing the rift that has been created by 8 years of cynical and inept government. Any of you reading from abroad may want to go to http://www.democratsabroad.org for more information. Cathleen
Thank you for posting the letter from Patricia & bring up this important conversation. As a Canadian, we’re even more affected by the public policy from the south. I sincerely hope the US citizens will make the right decision this time – the consequences are too grave to be distracted by dirty politics (think “socialist” & “terrorist”).
Cathleen, please list the illegal policies Bush has unleashed upon the world. Please be specific. By the way, I love visiting Florence. Is that nut still playing Mona Lisa outside the Uffizi?
The ONLY difference between the two major candidates is that Obama may put the nail in the coffin that contains our economy a little quicker. Both candidates were in favor of the insane $700 billion “bailout” of banks, and now we learn it is to be expanded to insurance companies, automakers, and probably your corner Starbucks! Free-market capitalism, if it ever really existed, is pretty much finished. Our phony economy is floating on a mountain of debt. The Fed just last week cut the lending rate to 1%. Yay! More easy money to borrow! Meanwhile, the dollar’s preeminence in world trade is being seriously threatened. When OPEC raised crude prices back in the 70’s, we didn’t mind as long as they accepted the dollar exclusively in oil sales. Last week, it was learned that China and Russia are trying to halt their dollar-denominated trade and move to other currencies. Iraq successfully moved from the dollar to the euro in 2001. And what was the first thing we did when we went in Iraq in 2003? Got them back on the dollar in oil sales. I believe it is the real reason we invaded Iraq, because US dollar hegemony was challenged big-time by a major oil exporter and we would just not tolerate it. The invasion was also to send a message to other countries contemplating such a move. It is a very real threat that the dollar could collapse if other countries refuse to accept it for payment. Several European governments have been alluding to a “realignment” of the world financial system. This ought to send shivers down your spines. The hyperinflation that may ensue from destruction of the dollar could lead to a fascist dictatorship. Care to pay $1 million for a loaf of bread? You folks pining for change had better be careful what you wish for. You may just get it.
I am not quite sure why everyone gets so worked up over the presidency when the office has turned into nothing more than a figurehead management position like the royalty of Europe. The real power lies with the Congress so if you want to change the tenor of the country change the congress and get the Congress out of the hands of that lunatic Nancy Pelosi. Barack will make a lovely showperson for the country, he is eloquent and presents well. What people forget is that he is half white and half black actually with more white values and understanding that black having been raised by a white mother. So I don’t get the whole african american in the white house when he is more white than black, his skin tone might be a little darker but whatever he still went to predominantly white ivy league schools. Sure he tried to connect with the liberal roots by doing community service but in the end keep that nice cushy job in the huge law firm making big bucks to live in a nice home. He’s a republican at heart. He touts change but never says what that change will be so why is everyone so worried, how much damage can he do to our national front…not much if we can change the balance of he house. Now foreign policy he might be able to do some damage but hopefully his handlers will keep him in check.
I agree totally with the letter. I grew up loving America back in Finland living next to the Soviet Union. I have lived here for that last 17 years and the last 8 years have been very painful for me because of the whole picture of the America that I idolized has crumbled right in front of my eyes. There is no excuse for torture – that is when you sink to the level of the terrorist. They are not jealous of America or the freedom here but hate the fact that America has a presence in the Middle East (because of the American interests – oil). I wonder what kind of travelers the people are that write here that who cares what Europeans think. They must be the ugly Americans that go to Europe like it is Disney Park just for them. Catherine, I am surprised that you have such a negative tone towards the Europeans. Do you know that where I come from it is the intelligence that counts to get your daughter to University and not the money that you have. Maybe, what you think is socialism, isn’t so bad after all. I hope that Obama wins and that he will do as he says and we can all work to make America in to the America that I thought that it was growing up. His speeches are uplifting and give me a lot of hope. McCain sounds like an old grump and scares me to death. The conservative right in this country are closer to the Communists of the old Soviet Union than you realize with their totalitarian view of the world. The word freedom is used a lot but they only want freedom to the corporations and the wealthy to exploit the masses. I was a conservative in Finland but when I came here I had open eyes and listened and made up my mind that I could never agree with the conservatives here. They are hawkish war mongerers and they want to tell me what I can do in my own bedroom. That is scary and too close to the way the old Soviet Union was. That is not freedom.
With a Democrat as president and a Democratic Congress, Rick’s business is going to nose dive. Why? Because taxes on the upper middle class, that is, those who can afford European vacations are going to go sky high. So people will have a lot less money for travel. The super wealthy will still go, but they aren’t Rick’s customers.
Catherine, Maybe you could get some financial help to pay for your daughter’s college education from one of the CEO’S of the financial firms that our great republican government just bailed out. By the way, for all of you people out there that don’t like socialism. The bailout was a form of socialism. And both republicans and democrats supported it. Remember Sarah Palin accusing Obama of being a Socialist! Her own party supported the bail out as well!
Stephanie…… What so many today seem to miss today, is that America was not founded as a democracy but as a republic. While our founders embraced democratic ideals, they were weary of the tyranny of the majority over the minority, which has historically always occurred in true democracies, and ultimately led to dictatorship. Thus the checks and balances of a republican form of government were instilled in our constitution. When we govern by ‘poll’ and see the call by many for the electoral college to be stripped away, we head down that slippery slope that will end the great American experiment! Ben Franklin was asked after the Constitutional Convention: “Mr. Franklin… what kind of government have you given us?”. Ben answered: “A republic…. if you can hold it.” Check this out…..a dry but enlightening read: http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/welch.html
Here is something that everyone reading this forum can agree on. Rick, please increase the font size of the reader responses!
Kaarina, welcome back, glad to see you are still suffering in the USA. The offer for a free ticket to a happier land is still available. I agree there is no excuse for torture in everyday life in the US. The placing of underwear on a man’s head should not be confused with torture however. I have blundered onto websites where men actually pay to have that performed on them. Yes, even men from sandy lands. But,,,,,,,, Imagine that you are legally and morally responsible for the lives of 300,000,000 of your fellow citizens. Your nation has just experienced an unprecedented attack that destroyed the lives of thousands of innocent men, women, children, and destroyed billions of dollars of private property. You have in custody a man who possesses the knowledge of an imminent attack that could be even more horrific. The grains of sand are flowing freely,,,,, what do you do? I am sure there must be some ugly Americans, but nearly all the ones we have encountered on our journeys have always been polite, extremely outgoing, and perhaps a bit loud when in the presence of the fruit of the vine. Mr. Humberd says it best, “Just remember, when you are in a bad mood, you meet people in a bad mood, when you are in a good mood, you meet people in a good mood.” I think you may have confused Obama with Mc Cain in your Communists rant. It was the Obama campaignites that probed the private life of Joe the Plumber using government computers! The three journalists that were expelled from a campaign airplane were not expelled by Mc Cain but Obama! It was not Mc Cain that funneled millions of $ toward a homegrown terrorist. I also believe I just heard Obama denouncing the very Constitution of our country. I could not agree with you more on college entrance. Intelligence should take precedence over other factors, such as race, gender and ethnicity, but that seems a very conservative platitude though. There may be hope for you after all Kaarina,,,,, Pacem!
Dave, a lot of Republicans were against the bail-out, myself included. Rep. Boehner (R- Ohio) called it a “crap sandwich,” which I agree with.
KENK, How do you know you have a man in custody who possesses knowlege of an attack? I’m sure you just suspect it or some said so. In our form of government, the man or woman is innocent until due process takes place. Of course I guess you can just start torturing people until you find someone that knows something…..which is what we have done in Iraq. Roundup everyone who happens to be in the area a bomb went off or someone was shot and start torturing. We also offer rewards to people who will name other people. Gee, a profit motive. Sure can’t imagine anyone abusing that plan can we? Oh, we’d have to have good reasons to torture anyone, you say? Hmmmmm….just where is that oversight in secret prisons and with an administration that refuses to even admit (the now known) torture? Why don’t we all just take a bit of emotion out of the discussion and add in a little logic. We’d all be better off.
This letter describes eloquently what I have also encountered overseas.
Bubba, so how do you feel about the fact that the other guys behead the captives? Is that a form of torture or more just a finality to the judgment without jury or judge?
I am a little suprised to hear that praise from the European Peanut Gallery as Barack wants to renegotiate the NAFTA plan that has enriched not only Canada but all of Europe, and stop so much globalization and trade. This of course would hurt Europe’s economy so I wonder if they understand that in a sense Obama wants to take us back to a more isolationist or protectivist time, which I don’t have much argument with. But again do they understand that bringing our jobs home will impact their economy? Hey i am all for nationalization of health care under Obama, I pay 1500 a month in health care premiums now, so getting free health care is great to me.
KenK, I see that you are totally brainwashed to think that anything is ok, as long as it preserves the “American way of life”. My perspective is from somebody who lived next to the Soviet Union for 28 years and I see an uncanny resemblance with the old Soviets and this administration. Now that there is no Soviet Union, it is easier to see. U.S. has become the bully of the world but I feel that most people are good people and do not support torture and bullying and will vote for Obama so America can be a great leader of the world again. It is time to stop brainwashing people to think that U.S. is the best in everything and actually become the best. You can not just dumb down your people and hope that they do not notice that other countries are going ahead of the U.S. in education and making better products and more freedoms for the people and especially things like paid vacations and maternity leaves and healthcare that does not bankrupt them, when they have a serious illness. U.S. has a long way to go to be for the people by the people, but I feel that Obama if anyone understands that he should be people’s president.
CARLA, I’d be surprised to see the jobs being “brought home” from India, China, the Phillipines and Mexico, as that wouldn’t be good for the profit of large corporations (many of whom probably contributed generously to the Obama campaign). As far as reducing your health care premiums, although Obama has good intentions I doubt that will happen anytime soon. The HMO’s have LOTS of money to fight initiatives like that. It will be interesting to see what transpires after Tuesday?
Just returned from Italy and used your books and bought many travel items from your store. I am disgusted that you too print this on your site. Hey, don’t try to act so politically correct by stating that you “rarely” post items of this sort. All you need to post is this one item to let us know how you feel!!! I guess I still am a true patriotic American and see it as the greatest country on earth. I too hope that others feel the same way about their countries. Its called patriotism!! I have travelled extensively to many countries and while I can appreciate all there is to offer, I still love America best! It is the greatest nation on the earth and I am proud to say that. I just hope in this great time of “change” we can still be proud of our country and defend it, even if others criticize it. There is something to be said about defending your country. It only makes it worse if you defend their views and feed into their hatred of America. Maybe we all should start by trying to defend our country when we travel and to emphasize what a great nation the USA is rather than bashing it along with the rest of the world!! Keep up your positive attitude, sounds like you must really love your country Rick! FORMER Rick Steves customer! Great books and products–bad politics. Were on the way to socialism.
KENK, Please name the person who “funneled millions of $ to a homegrown terrorist.” Also, please name the “homegrown terrorist.” It would also be helpful if you would please give info on where you “heard Obama denouncing the very Constitution of our country.” It seems to me the Constitution has been trashed by the Bush admin the part eight years with the denial of habeas corpus and the spying on US citizens by the NSA, etc. Do you think torture is really useful? Please remember McCain’s reaction to being tortured. He gave false info to his torturers. Israel’s Mossad had the same result when it employed torture; it got false info. Mr. Humberd is correct when he says, “When you are in a bad mood, you meet people in a bad mood, when you are in a good mood, you meet people in a good mood.” One can read this as, “How you treat others is how they will treat you.” Would you agree this applies not only to individuals, but to nations as well? Maybe the reactions we are seeing to our government from the citizens of other nations is a reflection to how our government has behaved? Shalom! Trish, this was not addressed to me, but permit me to put in my 2 cents worth. Beheading, in MHO, is torture. But, do we want to lower ourselves to the level of those who behead people? I want the USA to aspire to better behavior than that. If we want to have moral suasion over others we must act morally. Thank you for your time.
Jennifer, I DO love the United States. I consider informed patriotism rather like the love of a parent for her child. I would die for my children– but if I allowed them to act as they please, when they are willfully hurting others and themselves, I would not be a good parent. Standing by idly when the country I love acts in the wrong way, is being a poor citizen.
Nels your answers would be: Barack Hussein Obama II and William Charles Ayers and last, Chicago NPR Odyssey Program September 2001. It would be helpful if you would please name the US citizens that have been spied on by NSA. Joe Wurzelbacher does not count as he was spied on by Obama’s sycophants, using government computers and time. Actually Mc Cain did say they eventually broke him and he did give them some info, but I believe if you were to check more deeply the US has gotten vast amounts of intel from the terrorists. However I do not believe there was real torture involved. Remember Teddy Kennedy is responsible for more drowning deaths than the US military while using water boarding techniques. I have several friends that seem to be just fine after having been water boarded. I think most US citizens would be ecstatic if other countries would treat us as we have treated them. Granted the US does not always treat it’s enemies so well but then you may want to check that out with Germany or Japan!?! Peace dude!
KENK, I have yet to see any evidence that Obama funneled any money to Ayers, and you write millions of $. The National Security Agency (NSA) has eavesdropped on hundreds of US citizens making phones calls from abroad to family and friends back home in the USA. No names have been released of US citizens spied on by NSA. I guess they still have some honor. The Senate Intelligence Committee has begun an examination of this. See news reports during the week of Oct. 20 to 26. Obama on Odyssey program was talking about SCOTUS decisions, and he was saying the Court was making decisions within the limits of its powers under the US Consitution,and not beyond what is permitted.
I am astounded by how many “traveled†Americans refuse to see America’s actions over the past 8 years for what they are, but hide behind so called patriotism, and express strong aggression towards (fill in the blank- Rick Steve, socialists, ungrateful non- American america haters… to the point of irrational personal insults.) Particularly insightful is the aggression level, which clinically speaking is the response to denial. Refusal to see reality for what it is, goes hand in hand with aggression and even paranoia. Open question: is the phenomena on this blog a microcosm of what is being played out in politics on a national level? Can we find the strength and honesty to reflect and play on higher ground both blogging and politically? The international vote statistic for Obama is 80%, is it that the whole world and half of America is conspiring against the Republicans or that Republicans have gone way over the limit of decency into a dangerous and irrational spiral of aggression and paranoia? Thank you Tia for the Azaaz contact, it sounds to me that “the world†just wants to be considered. https://secure.avaaz.org/en/for_all_of_us/
Stephanie are you in the sad majority of liberals? A survey by the Pew Research Center shows that conservatives are happier than liberals — in all income groups. While 34 percent of all Americans call themselves “very happy,” only 28 percent of liberal Democrats (and 31 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats) do, compared with 47 percent of conservative Republicans. This finding is niftily self-reinforcing: It depresses liberals. Admittedly I am perhaps less a human than you but the most aggressive and vulgar group of people I have had the pleasure of meeting was a march of pro- abortionists in Washington D.C. while chaperoning a group of high school students in 1984. I think they were probably not Republicans.
Hi Happy, I am sorry but I think you just proved Stephanie’s point.
Trish, Your “come back” comment is not logical and does not address the issue. Just because the “enemy” behaves in what we see as a barbaric fashion and against international law, does not give us legal or moral rights to do the same.
Is Patricia old enough to realize that Italy has had more that 40 coups of its government since the end of WWII? I love Italy when I visit, but in no way do I want their government, their healthcare system, or the government pension system. I guess I judge things differently than most, but working for a large international company that sends Americans abroad and brings Europeans here, the funny thing is that the Americans are always ready to come home, where as the Europeans do not ever want to go back. Rick, stick to what you do best, which is not political commentary.
P. Jones, no one is asking you to want my government or become “like Europeâ€, nor will I correct your history. Let’s stick with the blog issue. What I as an Italian hope for is that the world’s largest power and democracy leads responsibly, and that is not the case over the past 8 years nor the promise of the McCain-Palin ticket. I will also tell you that what we Italians most admire of America is her flexible and dynamic spirit to adapt and change. And it is in this that we put our hope.
I am a different Terry than always posts here.I still cant believe how naive many people are when it comes to pre-emptive strikes.Not that I agree with Iraq in its entire operation but the fact is every liberal democrat in the political spotlight at the time said in public and on video that they had weapons of mass destruction and were destabalizing the middle east…every one of them except Obama who was not on the national stage at the time.I am a police officer of 30 years in big cities…L.A. and Seattle.The whole basis of law enforcement is protection.If I see a guy looking in the lighted window on the side of a house at 11pm should I go find out what he is doing and stop him or wait until he breaks in and rapes the 16 yr old girl in the room.Or if I see a car parked on the back street behind the bank with the car running and a nervous guy sitting behind the wheel,should I drive away until I hear the Robbery call come out over my radio with shots fired in the bank before I swing into action?Should we wait until the fanatics in Iran have a nuclear weapon and try to use it against Israel or us? Should we not do anything about Russia until they invade Georgia again and take over the last oil pipeline running into Europe that they dont control and start extorting the EU to swing politically the Russians way? If any European nation would have had the courage to try to form an active alliance and called Hitler what he was maybe 6 million Jews and another 6 million other outcasts according to the Nazis wouldnt have been gassed.Maybe the bullying,greedy,go it alone torturing Americans wouldnt have had to go there and spend 400,000 lives to keep Europe from speaking German today. When the Europeans finally develop some courage to solve world problems in their own neighborhood they will have an argument about us not being in their backyard with our military. By the way Patricia the dollar is doing quite well against the tanking Euro which means I get to go there again.
Terry you are making too much sense for this crowd! Thanks for the 30 years.
Rick I have a story for you that relates to your comments to Congress.I had been a police officer for approx 2 yrs in L.A when I was one of the officers on a kidnapping case of a 10 yr old boy. We knew who the suspect was and the violent history that he had. We recieved the ransom demand and location. We developed a plan and captured the main suspects friend trying to pick up the money and we knew this guy knew where the 10 yr old boy was along with the main suspect. Our whole purpose was to recover this boy unharmed but yet we knew that speed was the most important way to accomplish that goal. Some cooersion was used to find out where the boy was being held. Some might call it torture but it was nothing physical that would cause injury. Waterboarding which is a psychological way of gaining information. We got the information and went to where the boy was and found he had been hanged probably within 1 hr after the original kidnapping. After 30 years this is still the image that haunts me most of anything Ive have ever seen. There is nothing we could have done to save that boy but we didnt know that at the time. There are ways of gaining information without leaving any physical or psychological effects. Im not naive or stupid enough to believe that we Americans are perfect and havent used torture but if you put it into pespective it has been far less that any of our enemies including current terrorists. If it saves lives of our soldiers and many innocent citizens from future 911 type attacks Im for using those types of cooersions. I met Jackie at your store last year and had a short conversation with her just as I had a great conversation with you at hempfest. She was very charming and friendly no doubt the apple of your eye.If you were the dad of that 10 yr old boy I have no doubt you would have wanted us to find him no matter what.Thousands of lives might be saved in the future. Not all types of cooersions if they dont want to talk are torture.
Just want to clarify the above post. What I was trying to say was that waterboarding is a way of gaining information. It causes temporary psychological distress and fear but has no lasting physical effects. Our suspect was not waterboarded.
Terry: hear! hear!
This continues to be one of the most interesting net discourses I’ve seen recently. Many in the world will be interested to see the outcome of this election, whatever that turns out to be? Given the results of recent polls, it looks like it’s going to be close! Regardless of which candidate wins, the aftermath will probably be a large number of unhappy voters. Whatever your political views, good luck to you tomorrow!
An interesting article along the same lines from Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/id/166910/page/1
Terry great post! As I have read here, more people have drowned in Teddy Kennedy’s Buick than in all of the military’s waterboarding sessions. I cannot imagine anyone not using any means to find out the info to save their child, friend, or country. That is if they were to be completely honest.
Don’t you think easy answers to difficult questions should be considered suspect, be they proposed by the left or the right? Leaders uninterested in seeking further information about complex issues are liable to make serious mistakes. Left or right, to pretend to be omniscient is more than foolish. No matter who wins all of us must pressure our lawmakers to act in the best interests of the USA AND the world, for we are all interconnected. One example of this complexity is to remember that life is precious, period. We must honor and cherish the 3000 Americans who died on 9/11, and the 4190 who have given their lives for the USA in Iraq, but as civilized humans we must not ignore the 88,000 Iraqi civilians who have died, either: we can’t easily celebrate “the chance” to kill terrorists when so many innocent people fall victim to it. I do not mean to say that the Bush administration has not made its decisions with suffering. I mean that we are fortunate to live in a country where our voices can be heard, and we must neither ask our leaders for facile promises, nor believe them when they are made. None of us who lament the loss of American moral authority are suggesting the USA BECOME like another country, only that we ask our leaders to hold true to the ideals which have always united civilized societies.
Terry, torture does inspire the victim to give information. The problem is, it may not be ACCURATE information, causing a loss of valuable time acting on INACCURATE information. And let’s not forget the horror of possibly torturing someone who was WRONGLY arrested, not to mention the fact that we are supposed to be BETTER THAN THAT.
After the many comments I read on the post, I noticed that the same anger and divisions among the opposite parts in America are not any different than the ones here in Europe. We are all part of the same culture (western civilization):our polarized ideas are nothing more than the fruit of the massive individualism that drives all of us. We still use words like Communist and Fascist, both of which were defeated in our past history, and no longer exist in Europe at the present time, thank God. We all live in the globalized economy and since the economy is the force that has changed and written most of our history, I tend to speculate that those who run our lives are for the most part motivated by one ideal– PROFIT. It is time that we stop living in the past, and stop looking left or right, just all together we can make one big step FORWARD. Roberto , Italy
Nothing from Humberd today?
They canceled me, said I could not post again, so i don’t know if this will work or not. I am a Republican, so am not permitted an opinion.
Come on, Jim. That comment wasn’t necessary and you know no one gets banned due to their party affiliation. You’ve been getting a bit too carried away lately. I think it is a kindness to let you cool off for a bit. Hope to see you back soon with your “me and sweetie” stories.
Humbed you just make too much sense for this blog. Please treat us with a post tomorrow. No where in this blog is there to be seen a tally of all the known and suspected deaths perpetrated by Saddam. Surely these must figure in here somehow?! To all of you no torture ever at any cost or under any circumstance folks, I just think it is very easy to act superior and condescending while sitting in front of the computer warm fat and happy. Try being totally responsible for the safety and welfare of 300,000,000 souls and the fate of a nation. I should think that would humble most all of us. I just pray we don’t elect someone who is inclined to press the yellow “present” button or thinks such a decision is above his pay grade.
Terry the liberal Viet Vet..thoughtful post…many of us here are also Viet Vets some of us more than one tour of duty..I have been blessed to see the very best of beautiful people in life and also the ugliest of hateful people who want to destroy others..and again its obvious you have never been in a real life situation where your most beloved loved one had their life on the line..I have seen it and lived it many times in the eyes of my victims..I dont have to justify anything I have ever done..I have done it right everytime..my job is to protect life..when life is hanging in the balance and my choice is do nothing or to cooerce a murdering thug to give information to save that innocent life I will choose to try and save the life everytime no matter the opinion of any person. The only thing that keeps you from being victimized is that there are thousands of us who do this job and believe just like I do. There are thousands of thugs out there who love to hurt and kill innocent people. The only thing that stops them are millions of good citizens who help us do our job…ok enough preaching. I do appreciate and value your opinion. It helps me evaluate and improve the way I do my job. Angela-very good point in your post. Without going into a thousand word essay on how…I and other professionals can tell if you are telling the truth almost every time to qualify information. You are right that sometimes innocent people are arrested and we try very hard to make sure that doesnt happen. In the case I described that was not the case and again I choose life everytime. There was no injury or pain inflicted upon that suspect that gave us the info we needed. One last point…in doing my job I have never asked anyone if they were liberal,conservative or moderate. I dont care.I have never met a victim yet whos loved one was in danger by a thug(Seattle and LA are very liberal)who cared about anything(including the Geneva definition of torture)except the safe return of the victim.
DID NOBODY READ MY POSTING ABOUT THE THIRD PARTY ? :D WTF? i cant believe we’re all so interested in republicans and democrats. All that will change from this election is our taxes will go up. and we wont see any of it in return. lets see how the war unfolds, and how long it takes to get the troops home. Fundamentally, there is no difference between the 2 parties. what you see the candidates campaigning on is purely a distraction to lure simple minds and gain enough numbers to create a majority faction. Barack is in, and i congradulate him for his success. i congradualte anyone who has success in life. but nothing will change. i;d sure like to see everyone rally up and shock the world by electing a third party. send a message to all those democrats and republicans that change is what we really want.
I was born in NY and my immigrant grandparents helped make NY what it is. I experienced the break out of the war in Iraq from Europe where I live, where the mass majority of people got how wrong that invasion was. I watched conservative old ladies hang peace flags, the masses go to the piazza. I sat in bewilderment for years as so few people in America could decipher (including the press in a very big way) that we were invading the wrong country, and at home degrading our institutions of democracy. America was under some sort of spell. Understandably the 9/11 wound temporarily blinded our view. But what also distorted America’s view was the paranoid aggression injected into our concept of Patriotism. We were bullied and divided by the Bush administration into accepting Patriotism on their terms. A number of the above blogs are examples of that thought, lacking any rational train of thought but abundant in aggression, insult, bullying and a complete lack of awareness of the rest of the world. I am happy to see that the Democrats and the majority of America has finally found their voice. In Italian we would say: ORA BASTA!
I would hope this becomes a Travel Blog again. I love to discuss politics and other subject, but the only result of that is disagreement. I think it is a shame that so many political comments resulted in other comments way out t-h-e-r-e. Including mine. But I have opinions and surprise, surprise, I love post them sometimes, and sometimes I think a response is needed. I would love to have verbal discussion with many of you, but unless you are on the path from my bedroom to the bathroom, to the Den we may not meet each other. I don’t know when to draw the line or when, but come on, Travel, Travel. No one has more comments about what people in Europe said (20 to 40 years ago), I talked to thousands of them, and conducted the “Humberd Poll” many times in many countries. I love to read my comments as much as you love to read yours, but enough is enough. Thanks for the fun. All my comments on Rick’s Blog can be found at http://www.travel-tidbits.com/tidbits/cat_comments_on_rick_steves.shtml. Thanks and maybe (i hope not) goodby.
Ken K, Your comment about how the French are always there when they need you is not as witty as you think. If you studied your history, you’d know that the French basically saved our behinds during the Revolution, and so the US would not exist and none of us would be here right now having this debate if not for the French.
Terry The Liberal Viet Vet-As you said Vets arent very talkative…you will notice that I have not said anything about my experience there..I never mentioned it until you tried to qualify yourself by using that in your title…I did not challenge your experience as you have mine and took it for granted that you were there.You fail to get the point. When you were there your family wasnt hence the comment about your most beloved loved ones.If you felt like I do some of the guys in your unit are as close to you as family and I still think that if you were in the position to save their lives you would do that by almost any means possible. I am not frustrated and have never broken the law. The Washington State and US Constitution through case law allows Police officers to use cooersion and under certain circumstances even lie to suspects to accomplish a lawful purpose. We cannot physically attack or assualt a suspect and I have never done that. Professional interrogation techniques are psychological in nature and legal under case law decisions.I never interrogated anyone in the military and did not claim that I did. My point is that there are ways of gaining information that are not deemed as torture except by the most liberal pacifist that are legal and ethically correct. If you think that after the mistakes of the recent past were corrected that our current military isnt using legal wasys of gaining information then you are naive. My point is that those means are not tortue.So dont assume Im a lawless cop without carefully reading my posts. Never have been and never will be. So my hope would be disagree with me if you want and I appreciate your point of view but dont challenge my integrity.
To Terry the cop. You challenged your own integrity when you admitted to using coercive techniques. You use hair-splitting case law to try to self justify your actions, rather than statutes. You appear to scorn the Geneva conventions. You flat out admit you’d do anything to save a life that in your opinion is at risk. Across this country cops abuse their authority and power on a daily basis. Your comments are very concerning. At least the other Terry admits to have been abusive in the past and appears to be trying to recover his humanity.
ML, I never realized the French saved our behinds during the Revolution! Gosh how did I miss that one? Perhaps if you were a more careful reader you would see that I was quoting one of Rick’s own guides in London.
I am grateful for all cultures, but the French more than some. History says they did save out butts. Ken K, just admit you can’t totally demonize the French as you would wish. Why you would resist, I’ll never know, as you seem to think you are one of only a few real patriots on this site. I guess you have forgotten the French were right on the war.
Will-Statutes are enacted law by a legislative body. Many times those statutes innocently missed important issues which they were trying to address thus leading to different interpretations of the statute. The Courts job is to interpret the statute so that it is in line with the Constitution of said state or US Constitution. Each case is brought before the Courts,argued and finally decided sometimes by many Judges and Courts. If the case is not setteled in lower Courts it moves up to higher Courts until all appeals are heard and decided. Case Law interprets and finalizes into permenant law (unless overturned by a higher court) the statute in question. No case law is hair splitting (only your personal prejudice is hair splitting). Case law by its nature is very specific in clarifying the intent of the Court. Again both the Washington State (one of the most liberal) and the US Constitution allow Police to use coersive(check out the definiton) interrogative techniques under Miranda to obtain information. We cannot use force and as I said before, even with the suspect in the case of the 10 yr old boy no physical force was used.Yes even some of the most liberal Courts have affirmed that Police officers under specific conditions can lie to a suspect to achieve a lawful purpose. So now you can stop being concerned and my integrity has always been and forever will be intact as I have never broken any law. I disagree with your interpretation of The Geneva Convention and again the courts will decide.Professionals will continue to obtain information from terrorists that will save lives in an ethical way that is still effective and all will be well.I did not ever say that I would do anything to save a life…refer to my second post…there are ways of obtaining information that leave no physical or psychological effects was my exact quote. That would qualify it legal under Geneva and every law by which I am legally and ethically bound.
Will- There are over 400,000 assaults on police officers nationwide each year. The average number of police officers fired nationwide each year is between 500-600, over 90% of those are for personal ethical violations not use of force or abuse of authority. Nationwide there are over 5 million citizen – police officer contacts a day. Over 90% of use of force complaints against officers are exhonerated or unfounded. There is not a major police agency that I know of that does not have civilian oversight thus debunking the theory of police cover-up. The FBI has unlimited oversight in investigating Civil Rights violations under which use of force qualifies and they investigate often. The truth and statistics are pretty hard on talking points and personal prejudice about cops abusing their authority and power in this country on a daily basis. The police in this country are the most ethical and transparent of any country on earth as we should be. That is a very good thing to have the trust of your citizens. It is a very small vocal minority that doesnt trust us. I would refer you to the annual report of The Chief of Police in Seattle where he dicscusses the trust that we have here even in minority communities. There are always a few exceptions but Seattle is no different than most large cities. I have been to 16 countries and counting and have been the guest of some of their police agencies. With the exception of Great Britain we are light years ahead in the area of civil rights between citizens and police. We could not do our job without the energetic support of good citizens.
Steven, ML, I admit I can not totally demonize the French! When were you in France last? I was there in April and as always I loved my time there. Do you really think I am not aware of the assistance the French rendered unto the US in the American Revolution?!? I have just returned from Yorktown, Va from studying the aid France gave in the way of naval assistance etc. Two centuries does make a world of difference though. Today’s France is not the same France that saved our butts in the 18th century. The French were right on that war! Today’s France is more like the France that refuses fly-over rights to the US when going against our enemies, and how about Oil for Food? On the other hand they are the same France that adopts many of our fallen heroes grave sites and helps maintain them through organizations such as Les Fleurs de la Memoire. ML and Steven, I am sure you are familiar with all this. I do not consider myself a patriot as I have never really sacrificed for my country but I will not listen to others denigrate those who have, without adding a few comments. If you have not been to France I would suggest you go. It is a very beautiful country and I have never met a rude French citizen yet. I do firmly believe we will live to see the Tour Eiffel fall to terrorism though.
Oh this is rich! Now cops are saints! So say the cops. I’m a 75 year old conservative Great Grandmother and in 1968 I watched a pack of cops beat the living daylights out of a young man at a country fair. They had him between the poultry and rabbit buildings. I was a relatively young mother then. A crowd gathered to watch and my bishop, an elderly gentleman approached the cops and tried to get them to stop. They shoved him aside, posted a guard and continued their beating. My bishop’s comment upon rejoining out group was “now I know why the young people call them pigs”. This behavior hasn’t changed to this day. Abuses like this happen everyday. We all see the videos. Not just a small minority fear you for the monsters you have become. “civilian oversight” indeed! Lip service. Internal affairs. Yeah right. Your union has bought and paid for the protection you get from elected officials. You guys actually join forces and set up nice little committees for the sole purpose of patting yourselves on the back. I have spent a lifetime watching you men abuse our citizens. You will have to buy your sainthood crown somewhere else.
I may have to change my mind about Obama. I was very happy to find out that he did not acknowledge the letter from Amadinajab immediately and is going to take time to craft an appropriate response. And even more important to me is his chief of staff who will make sure that Isreal stays an ally to us. I was very fearful he was going to pull a Carter and want to kimbaya and be everyones friend, but clearly he is not opening his heart and our land to Iran.
Let’s hope Obama just keeps doing the same things Bush did. It worked so good the whole world loves us, we are at prosperous peace and every U.S. citizen feels a deep brother kinship with each other. Heaven forbid we change anything.
The election night reaction by Rick and others seemed almost like the Third Reich. When you have cheering crowds start calling someone the Messiah. or The One, it reminds me of those Nazi parades you see on the History Channel. I hope he’s successful but, remember, he’s just a man. There’s been anti-Americanism in Europe since the 1700’s. I was living in England in the 1970’s, and there were demonstrations against the US and Jimmy Carter. I was in England when Bill Clinton was bombing Serbia. There were large demonstrations against the US and Bill Clinton. There were signs that called Clinton a Nazi and a war criminal. I was in England in January, and I ran into two taxi drivers who stated that they liked the US and George Bush. They were both from eastern Europe. President Bush is more popular there. If President Bush is such a tyrant, then why has millions of people moved to this country (Legally and illegally) in the last eight years? Why do we have a large Border Patrol force that has to struggle to keep illegal aliens out? If people really believed Bush was a Nazi, millions, including Rick and Andy Steves would have fled the country.
Larry: Most patriots don’t flee a country when things get tough, they try to fix things. Since you seem to know so much about Nazi’s, you might find it interesting to google the similarities between Bush and the Nazi’s. I think you will be amazed!
Paula: I have Jewish (and Muslim) relatives. I have visited synagogues and talked to Holocaust survivors. I don’t think I need a lecture about nazis. I recommend you go to a synagogue and ask them what the real nazis were like. Just because you have political differences with someone doesn’t make them a nazi or communist. In a dictatorship, people who protest and try to “fix” things are arrested, sent to prison, or are executed. There have been thousands or millions of Americans who have critisized or protested against President Bush. The last I heard they are alive and well and walking free. Barack Obama will be our President in January. During the campaign, when people told him that they thought President Bush was a dictator, he reminded them that FDR rounded up over 200,000 Japanese-Americans, plus German and Italian-Americans, and but them into concentration camps. Take care.
Larry, I think you missed Paula’s point. She is simply saying there are many similarities between how the Nazi’s governed and how Bush has governed. I personally also have a Jewish heritage and several friends who are Muslim, gay, gypsy, disabled, etc. I have also talked to survivors. I have relatives who survived and some who didn’t. Many who were opposed to the Nazi’s stayed and fought. Yes, many died. In addition, I have talked to past Nazi’s and German government officials. Prior to Paula’s post, I have also googled the similarities our government has to the old Nazi government. It is amazing and not a little disturbing. I think your post got a bit carried away. Paula’s point was a very specific one.
I haven’t spent enough time in Europe to have gotten into political discussions, other than with European expats here, some of whom took American citizenship just so they could vote against Bush in 2004, but when I was in Japan in the fall of 2004, everyone I had a substantive conversation with asked me whether I was a Republican or Democrat. This had never happened to me in 30 years of traveling to Asia. When I said that I was a Democrat, they relaxed and smiled. The idea that we don’t need to care about world opinion because “we saved their hind ends in World War II” means nothing to most people there, because only people aged 70 and over have clear memories of that era. Also, most Western Europeans and Japanese do NOT want to emigrate to the U.S. anymore, because they are appalled by our violence and social inequality. This is not essentially a Republican or Democratic thing. Both Nixon and Eisenhower were highly respected in other countries. We need intelligent political leadership, and we haven’t had that for 8 years, since Bush played up to the mean and dumb sector of the American population.
Larry Carroll, note that the bulk of today’s immigrants come from dirt-poor Third World and Eastern European countries. Here in Minneapolis, the largest immigrant groups are Somali, Hmong (from Laos), Latino, and Liberian, where 100 years ago, it was Germans, Scandinavians, and Irish. When I lived in Portland, the largest groups were Koreans (although there were fewer of them coming, given Korea’s prosperity), Vietnamese, Russians, and Romanians.
KathyM, I’m not sure if anyone’s still reading this thread, but I feel compelled to thank you for your open mind about President-elect Obama. It shows great character to change one’s mind. I believe that Obama will pleasantly surprise those non-supporters who are willing to give him a shot. He will continue to defend the US vigorously, but he will also do it thoughtfully. This approach will actually make us stronger than the military only, unilateral approach. Obama is not perfect, and he is not our savior. His supporters know this. But he does have the ability to be an excellent President, with our support. Thanks again, KathyM. Your open minded comment is fresh air on this blog.