I’ve just been working on a big magazine project and find that many of my jokes have been censored by editors. These jokes aren’t rude or crude, but they just keep readers on their toes and give things a little edge. I like historic jokes that both shine a light on a sightseeing topic and tickle your bone (the funny one). But I’m not sure where the line is.
For instance, in centuries past, lots of popes died of syphilis. Because they claimed to be celibate, would it be OK to call the disease that brought them down the “immaculate infection”?
Comments
I think that humor is always in the eyes of the beholder. What one person sees as humorous another doesn’t. I personally think it is great to laugh at myself as well as the funny things that others say and do. It keeps me from being to serious which I consider to be very healthy. I am very religious but still see the humor in my beliefs and dont get offended at all if others see humor in it also as long as their comments aren’t meant to be destructive.
A priest walked into a bar in Siena. Strangely enough, under the priest’s arm was a healthy Italian pig. “If you don’t mind me asking,” says the proprietor, “Where’d you get that animal from?” “I won him in a raffle,” says the pig. (a priest told me that joke but you can substitute your own favorite word in place of priest)
LOL. Well, ok, so you’re playing with words–always a good thing (says the English major inside of me). The Catholic me can see how some might feel scandalized by this joke b/c they might see it as poking fun at the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, a commonly misunderstood dogma (even among Catholics). People can be very sensitive about religious jokes, for good reason I think, b/c religion (and quite frequently the Catholic Church) is often the butt of jokes, which can be indicative of a lack of respect. And then there’s the whole question about whether sin is funny to begin with… I guess with this, as with all other jokes, the funny is in the bone of the hearer… :)
But I’m not sure where the line is You have crossed it, my friend.
In my experience, editors/managers are often worried about what others might think. It’s not that they necessarily think there’s anything crude/offensive in something. In fact, they often can’t even tell you why someone else might find it offensive! They find it intellectually easier to strike certain topics rather than actually identify the actual meaning of something.
There is a lot of truth in humor….. if you are being historically accurate, then I say ‘go for it’! People may be hurt, offended or just think it’s just damn funny. You can’t please everyone, and frankly I’m sick of people being so ‘sensitive’. It’s time everyone loosen up a bit!
Nice line. At least joking about the Pope(s) (dead or alive) is unlikely to result in death threats.
Really cute. Now give us one with Allah, funny guy.
Speaking as a lifelong atheist, what I find most amusing is those people with beliefs in whatever supernatural and all-powerful entity who seem to think that said entity knows, much less cares, what all six billion of us say at any given time, and even more incredibly, can be offended by it.
eh the joke is no worse than saying the catholic church is corrupt which we all know is true, especially if you have seen the Godfather part 3
Lots? Name ten Popes that died of syphilis.
I could find four through a quick google search: Alexander VI Giulio II Sixtus IV Celestine III Considering that these individuals were celibate, I would say that 4 out of 260 is a pretty significant number to have contracted a sexually transmitted disease. For your health!
One more! Julius II
lovely! http://www.ricksteves.com/blog/index.cfm?fuseaction=entry&entryID=443
My wife and I still wonder what makes Rick tick. Who wants to provoke even a tiny part of his customer or prospective customer base this way? Or, is what we really are seeing here, a wanna-be subordinate with too much free license? Maybe Rick ought to monitor Rick (aka we can’t pay you more, but you can represent me if you aren’t too scatalogical)
I think a little satire is good for the soul! We all need to lighten up, the world isn’t going to change tomorrow, better to have a good attitude and laugh a lot. That is what will get you through life!
I love Rick’s sense of humor! You have the right amount of humor and seriousness my friend.
Some persons who became popes may have had another life before they became head priest. Even in the Military. Some Irish priests were even married before the English Catholics complained to Rome. They should have left them alone as modern times show us.
I am unclear how anyone can say who had syphilis as it can really only be determined by a blood test. Up until modern times it was just called the great pox so who knows who had it. Could the Popes have had signs of small pox and now people label it syphilis. But more than that who really cares?????? I am with Q, your humor is lost on me and inappropriate and I say with Q give us some dirt and jokes about Allah.
Rick something you might not know is that if a minister converts from one Christian religion to Catholicism and was married in another religion, they can still become ordained priests. I have a friend who who a minister in the Church of England and converted to RC and is now a priest although he has a wife and child. So as another reader/blogger pointed out he may have had another life before being a pope OR did you ever think he may have had sex before he took he vows – remember the Big S has three stages that can span over a lifetime so it might have shown up in the tertiary stage which means he contracted a long long time ago. Maybe a little more research before you start sussing the Catholics ;)
Lots? Four or five? I googled “popes with syphilis” and got one link to Alexander VI and about five to this Rick Steves article. Also mentioned as suffering from syphilis were Charles Darwin, Edgar Allen Poe, Henry VII, and Christopher Columbus. Men are imperfect, popes are men, popes are imperfect. Not very shocking, actually. Rick appears to love to tweak the Catholic church, which would be ok if he was either Catholic himself, or if he was equally fond of tweaking other religions in the same fashion, especially Islam. If you’re so fond of free religious speech, Rick, why don’t you post some Muhammed cartoons on your blog? Now that would be courageous. Your periodic Catholic tweaking is getting tedious.
Wait, I take it back about throwing some Allah jokes around after I remembered what happed to Kurt Westergaard and the Danish paper when the Muslims couldn’t take a joke. Don’t want any death threats on Rick if he is still updating his books.
The Pope is infallible
Why would Q and Laddie want jokes about Allah? Rick was making a joke about men(Popes) not God. You are aware Q and L that Allah is Arabic for God aren’t you? Or, do you think the Pope is God? FYI Yahweh is Hebrew for God.
OK Nels, how about the one when the Imam and and the ayatollah walk into a bar with a pig on a leash…
OMG, I agree this religion thing is getting tedious. It just seems that of the hundred of thousands of fans that buy the guidebooks and the handful of people (like .0001 percent of the people buying books and taking tours) that occassionally watch this blog site, deserve better. I think these jabs are to generate chatter because on the whole the blog is pretty boring , especially compared to two years ago and just show a level of anger and contempt toward his fans. Sad very sad. Rick enough of the pot, politics and religion already. It would be better not to blog at all and close the site down than put this garbage up.
Ah, the challenge of dealing with the humor impaired.
Rick, I am concerned when I read these blogs so I only do it every so often. I see you encouraging people to accept drugs in their lives and even have made it part of your tour to indoctrinate the drug virgin. Now you are trying to make people feel bad about their religion and turn away from it in shame. In the old days they would say you were trying to lead people away from God and that you were evil and working with Satan. But we are a more enlightened civilization now and would not put that label on you. When will you catch up with the rest of us. Are you puposefully trying to alienate people or are you just bored and need a laugh at your bloggers expense.
As a cradle Episcopalian: “Where ever you find 4 Episcopalians, you’ll always find a fifth…” Also, Episcopalians are “God’s Frozen Chosen.” And told by the minister at a Unitarian-Universalist service: “A man at a UU service kept shouting AMEN BROTHER! during the service. When asked why by the person next to him, the man exclaimed he had found the Lord. His neighbor immediately said, not here you haven’t!” And frequently said before the collection at UU churches, “For the Atheists in attendance, if you have anything in your pockets that says In God We Trust, here is your chance to get rid of it.” I’ll take my religion with a little humor any day. Life is too short to be serious about everything.
I don’t see anything wrong with a little joking. Religions were invented by people and people have always been imperfect. Catholic church of history was more about power over the people than anything else. There were orgies involved with some Popes. Catholic priest have had childred through out the history. Celibacy for the priests is ridiculous. Now the problem is the molestation of the children by the priests that become priests trying to avoid the fact that they are gay and end up not able to avoid their urges. This is a major problem in Catholic Church and should be openly discussed. I am apalled that the truth is not discussed more. I do not get why so many people get so upset about a joke or two.
I know we are not supposed to respond to other posts, but I cannot leave what kaaketu said unchallenged. Linking homosexuality with pedophilia is WRONG. The two are not mutually inclusive. Please DO NOT tar gays with the pedophile label.
I surely did not mean to say that gays are pedophiles. My point was that the rididulous celibacy rule corrupts men to become pedophiles. I doubt the young men became priests because they were pedophiles. I shouldn’t have used the word gay at all. Sorry for that. I have nothing agains gays. I am for gay marriage and all.
Kaaketu, celibacy does not make men pedophiles. Pedophiles come from abusive homes and by becoming the perpetrator, the former victim is able to re-enact his own abuse, this time with a feeling of control.Could pedophilia be a brain disease? Bradford of the University of Ottawa says studies of pedophiles’ brains have shown differences in the way they react to changes in hormone levels, but he says the research is in its earliest stages. Other scientists have posited several risk factors that can lead to pedophilia, including chromosomal abnormalities, psychological problems during puberty and even being brothers: The Journal of Psychology in 2000 reported that “a gap of several years between brothers might deprive the pedophile of companionship in formative years of sexual behavior development.” I am a lapsed Catholic that believes in God and am offended by what the priests have done to children, maybe it has been to easy to become a priest but I also am offended at the type of attack Rick is hurling at the Church. There are good nuns and bad nuns same for priests. People are people. I don’t particularly like the hierarchy of the church but the Church is not about priests or celibacy but about being good and having faith in a God.
the type of attack Rick is hurling at the Church? Please, where is the attack in passing on a joke, maybe in poor taste, but hardly a hurled attack. You saw Nancy cite several jokes at various deniminations’ expense, even atheists. And it is not easy to become a priest, rabbi, or pastor. How about a minimum of four years post-college and frequent psychological testing along the way. Rick didn’t even get into the Jesus or Mary jokes.
Louisa, yes I feel he is hurling insults at the church and that is why his editors are editing out his “jokes” . They find no humor in them and nor do I. If he was making universal Christian jokes that would be bad enough but he is discriminating against the Catholic Church and no one else. And this has become a pattern. He asked if others agreed with the editors that edited out his jokes, alot of agree with the editors, they are not funny and I wouldn’t publish them. He asked my opinion I gave it.
Is rick and/or his minions about any attention is better than no attention? Kathy Griffin is like that.
OK all gays are not pedophiles but are not the pedophiles molesting only male victims gay? I was told by a psychiatrist, on an ETBD tour actually, that pedophilia in it’s classic definition involved victims too young to actually respond. Meaning that only abuse involving the very young was considered pedophilia, otherwise it is just your normal everyday sexual abuse. Excuse my not remembering the proper verbiage she used to describe this. This is just terminology anyway. Having several priests and a nun in my family I am quite aware that in the past the priesthood was a bit of a haven for gay men. Easy place to live without opposite sex companionship and not be questioned by the public. Remember homosexuality used to carry a stigma!?! I have never known a gay priest (or one who admitted it) but my family members in the “hood” all do. It seemed to work for sometime but then we lost our morality, liberal leanings took over and things went to hell. I do think the public would be better served if we called a gay a gay and didn’t overdo the pedophile thing so much. Rick is there a group that does not contain good and evil, of course we know that there are no gays in Iran!
My own attitude on “politically” (or “religiously”) incorrect jokes is that the more “incorrect” they are, the funnier they had better be. In the case of the “immaculate infection” jibe, the test is not passed, sadly, not because it’s too “incorrect,” but simply because (alas), it’s not (quite) funny enough. (In my humble opinion.)
The pope is considered infallible only in religious matters, not in his personal life. In that, he is a sinner like all of us. Most religions, and ethnic groups for that matter, have no trouble laughing at themselves. It is only when outsiders make jokes about them that they are offended. I think this is only human nature. Allah jokes would not be comparable to pope jokes, as Allah is god. However, Muhammed jokes would be comparable to pope jokes, and we have seen what a great sense of humor the Muslims have regarding Muhammed jokes and cartoons.
I told Rick’s joke to both my father and my brother (among others). My brother’s kids have all gone to Catholic private school. Everyone found it funny. I find it funny that people are determined to label Rick a Catholic-hater when he is married to a Catholic and is sending a LOT of money to a Catholic college. I would also bet that like my sister when she married a Catholic, Rick had to promise to raise the children Catholic. Whether Catholics like it or not, the Church is not perfect and never has been. The same can be said of EVERY religion. Also, since Rick concentrates his expertise on Europe, the fact is that the history of Europe is closely intertwined with that of the Church. The interesting parts of that history are usually the salacious ones and the stories of conflict. Sweetness and light can be boring otherwise Tiger Woods’ and Jesse James’ behavior wouldn’t be news.
With all due respect and sensativity to other people and the importance their beliefs are to them, it is always appropriate to think of how someone else may feel about a joke. That my be where the line is. All religions are different. Some don’t have the belief of a mediator between humans and Christ. They believe in direct access and a personal relationship to a caring, loving God through prayer. My Catholic friend whould find “immaculate infection” very humorous. Her mother would have a heart attack if she heard that. I have to admit a big colgate smile…funny! Maybe it’s something you laugh at in private if you aren’t sure how your family and friends of other beliefs may feel over a joke that could be of a sensative nature. Happy travels!
The earlier popes having venereal disease is historical fact; really people get a grip. Or maybe that’s the issue. Whether your’re a Muslim, Jew, Buddist or Christian-if you’re that stuck up and full of yourselves. It requires the Jaws of Life to retract your respective holy books from your proverbial backsides, that’s on you. Truly, it’s at the height of obtuseness and hyper-myopicism the way some Catholics defend the church and pope scandal after scandal. Oh yeah, to my Muslim brothers and sisters: being righteous before God means doing no harm to any of His children, whether they read your Qu’ran or not. The turning a blind eye when you know what you see has to stop.
It is his blog- he can post what he wants. People need to take things a little less seriously. Plus, to those defending the Catholic church- that group has honestly earned a great deal of tarring, feathering and general mockery. They have failed to address serious allegations against them and have in fact protected pedophiles for over 3 decades. Since they refuse to show any interest in reforming a broken and damaging religious group, the least they can do is accept some much deserved derision.
But I’m not sure where the line is. For instance, in centuries past, lots of popes died of syphilis. Because they claimed to be celibate, would it be OK to call the disease that brought them down the “immaculate infection”? This is where it all began..he asked our opinion and we gave it
Ha ha. i guess its right! in any case, the Catoholic church seems to be too busy hiding homo priests under its huge carpets and all their boy molestation cases to have time for thinking about STD infected Popes! what’s the use of this pretence of celibacy if you can’t keep your hands to yourself? Even the Apostle Paul had said something to this effect!
Ever wonder if the world would be better is EVERYONE gave up on organized religion and just prayed to and worshipped their own God individually, exercised their own spirituality. From news reports it is slowly heading that way but not soon enough that we will see any benefit from such a thing, maybe our grandchildren will see it. You can still have faith without organized religion.
An interesting proposal, Martha. But many people want to join with others in worship and praise, just as people want to join clubs or choirs or other social situations in order to share with others the same interests and beliefs. Organized religion in general, and the Roman Catholic Church in particular, recently on this blog have taken a beating. We know the church, like all human institutions, is flawed, but let’s not lose sight of the enormous good that has also been done by organized religion. Catholic Charities, The Salvation Army, Lutheran World Relief, the list goes on.
Rick, some of the sons of religion— like the pope and his priests—are not in reality: pedophiles abound and , yes , STD transmitted to popes. God is laughing or crying. How many wars start because of religion? Like FDR said—and you quoted in your blog—“let’s stop the beginnings of all wars” Maybe it begins with questioning all authority, including the higher ups in the church(es).